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Old 09-12-2016, 09:27 PM
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How Would You Fix This?

I am working on the B pillars on my T coupe and noticed a problem with the leading edge of the Right Rear quarter panel. This panel is going to need some significant work as someone has hammered and beat up the panel below the window and on the front edge of the quarter panel.

That is not my problem, My problem is if you look at the edge of the quarter panel where it wraps around the B pillar. This is the edge opposite the door edge. I put a straight edge along this point and fount 2 real disturbed low spots on this leading edge. It looks like 3/16 or so low.

How can I fix this edge? I have heard or welding a wire in the leading edge and weld and grind to fit. Of course I would replace the quarter if anything if they were avail but that part is not re-popped.

So I am looking for suggestions as to how to go about fixing this edge?

What would you do in this situation?

Here are a couple a photos illustrating the low spots as I held a square along the edge. The last photo is a bonus.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:10 PM
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there are a bunch of ways to do that..

this is just one..

https://youtu.be/vEyE8PibVDs

here is another...

https://youtu.be/RfsonLnIJLM

there are lots of very skilled body guys here..
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Rip VW (09-13-2016)
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:32 AM
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They stole my idea those SOB's I posted that a couple years ago.
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:03 AM
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First thing I would try is putting my slapping spoon behind that. So I could improperly use it like a drift. I don't know model Ts by heart, what's the back side look like?
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:11 AM
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They stole my idea those SOB's I posted that a couple years ago.
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
First thing I would try is putting my slapping spoon behind that. So I could improperly use it like a drift. I don't know model Ts by heart, what's the back side look like?

The back side of the panel is not accessible as the damage is right on the point where the edge is folded over the B pillar.to get to the back of the damage I would have to remove the spot welds and fold the edge back and pull the quarter. I am hoping to not have to do that.
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:32 AM
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I was thinking that if the B pillar inner wraps around but does not touch, there might be room to slide a tool in between so you could knock it out from the back side.

Using pull studs is good if you have the gun. If you don't, you could tack small bolts or tabs in the dents and pull on those using a slide hammer or leverage. Improvisation required but fairly simple. Another old school method would be to use a pull rod. Or, you could slit the dented edge and use a table knife through the slit, to bend it back or back up a hammer. The two latter methods mean welding is involved.

We're all talking about straightening it, though. You mentioned welding a rod there as filler, and if you'd like to see that and other processes used, the early pages of my 1968 Camaro body repairs thread (in build section) has several examples you can study.

I would certainly want to reference the door during any of this. If you do so and find that the quarter edge is pancaked from the two dents and has the gap wide out past them...

Pulling at both dents simultaneously would be how to address that.

If hanging the door just yet is an issue, you could make a template or use bent TIG rod to assure that the curvature of the two panels is similar when you finish.

Hope maybe you can catch an idea from all that. FWIW, I bought the HF stud gun kit and no don't go buy one for this, it sucks. Good luck and let us know what you're thinking or how you do!
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
I was thinking that if the B pillar inner wraps around but does not touch, there might be room to slide a tool in between so you could knock it out from the back side.

Using pull studs is good if you have the gun. If you don't, you could tack small bolts or tabs in the dents and pull on those using a slide hammer or leverage. Improvisation required but fairly simple. Another old school method would be to use a pull rod. Or, you could slit the dented edge and use a table knife through the slit, to bend it back or back up a hammer. The two latter methods mean welding is involved.

We're all talking about straightening it, though. You mentioned welding a rod there as filler, and if you'd like to see that and other processes used, the early pages of my 1968 Camaro body repairs thread (in build section) has several examples you can study.

I would certainly want to reference the door during any of this. If you do so and find that the quarter edge is pancaked from the two dents and has the gap wide out past them...

Pulling at both dents simultaneously would be how to address that.

If hanging the door just yet is an issue, you could make a template or use bent TIG rod to assure that the curvature of the two panels is similar when you finish.

Hope maybe you can catch an idea from all that. FWIW, I bought the HF stud gun kit and no don't go buy one for this, it sucks. Good luck and let us know what you're thinking or how you do!

I like these ideas! I was thinking about the slide hammer idea and I was almost ready to go buy the Eastwood mig torch adapter for welding the studs on, but a mishap in the shop yesterday is going to cost me almost 200 bucks, so I am looking real hard at frugality at the moment. I have lots a smaller bolts I can weld to the panel and several slide hammers to choose from. I am headed out to the shop shortly and am going to see what I can assemble to do the job. You said it would be advantages to pull both low spots simultaneously and that has given me and idea using a length of square tube and weld the studs to the panel and to the square tube then I can pull from the tube and pull both at the same time.


I can feel up where the back of the B Pillar is but can't feel if there is a gap sufficient to slide a spoon in. I am going to grab the flex scope and see what I can see. maybe I can slip a spoon or reasonable facsimile back there but I think I will be pulling with studs.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:55 PM
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Even if you can slip a small flat scraper in there I'd think you could hit it hard enough to bring that out. Worst case you could build it up with weld and grind it flat.
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic View Post
Even if you can slip a small flat scraper in there I'd think you could hit it hard enough to bring that out. Worst case you could build it up with weld and grind it flat.
Even a scrap of bar stock or heavier gauge sheetmetal might get in there.
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip VW View Post
I like these ideas! I was thinking about the slide hammer idea and I was almost ready to go buy the Eastwood mig torch adapter for welding the studs on, but a mishap in the shop yesterday is going to cost me almost 200 bucks, so I am looking real hard at frugality at the moment. I have lots a smaller bolts I can weld to the panel and several slide hammers to choose from. I am headed out to the shop shortly and am going to see what I can assemble to do the job. You said it would be advantages to pull both low spots simultaneously and that has given me and idea using a length of square tube and weld the studs to the panel and to the square tube then I can pull from the tube and pull both at the same time.


I can feel up where the back of the B Pillar is but can't feel if there is a gap sufficient to slide a spoon in. I am going to grab the flex scope and see what I can see. maybe I can slip a spoon or reasonable facsimile back there but I think I will be pulling with studs.
Prodisprocrastinatorial overtones detected!

I knew a guy who (heres your solution) welded washers standing on edge along a crease on a door. Put a row of holes in a 2x4, got some all thread to put through them then bent hooks in the all thread.... hmm. Your square tube and slide hammer idea sounds like it has potential. Metal is friendly when you can ease it all out at once. It might take a lot of slide hammer or a little steady pull, just be very careful so you don't make it worse. Pulling both dents at once will help to ease the high spots out around them on the panel face, too. Enjoy your problem-solving. Therein lies the satisfaction!
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Old 09-14-2016, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
Even a scrap of bar stock or heavier gauge sheetmetal might get in there.

We have a partial winner here... I looked at the b pillar again and found a piece of steel that slid between the pillar and quarter skin. I bent the outer edge of this piece of scrap at about a 30 degree angle so I would have something to hit instead of sliding the hammer along the edge of the quarter hoping to get a good blow with the hammer.

I was successful in moving the dent about 80% of where it should be. That old steel is tough as nails to move. I stopped there today and will go out tomorrow and see if I can persuaded the last 20 %. I am going to spot a stud on it tomorrow and see what happens. I did notice the edge is swollen some and I need to bring it back down to stock, and I think I will have material to finish the edge.

Oh before I started this morning I thought I would look at the door edge and see how it fit to get some references for working the edge

I closed the door and then my internal dumb *** alarm went off. The way a door fits on a T is the door has a trim lip all around the door that covers the sill and door opening edges. That stupid quarter panel problem will be covered by the door anyway. I could have just ignored it but I am a glutton for punishment and I like to do things the "Right Way" so I am going to treat it just as if it is right out in the open. I just roll that way and can't help myself.

Pictures at noon tomorrow.. Damn computer won't give them up.
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:59 PM
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I made the sheet metal tool and went out today and got the panel almost completly straight on the door edge. I think a little masageing and it will be good. In one of my photos you see the quarter area just aft the door. It doesn't really look that bad till I ran a DA across it. The previous person to work on this area beat the snot out of the panel and it is going to be a chore to repair his repair.

At this point I was concerned that the panel curvature was off, So I made a cardboard template of the drivers side curve and compared it with the passenger side. I was surprised but it was only maybe 1/8 inch off of the curve.

I am going to work more of this panel tomorrow but I also need to finish stripping down the drivers B Pillar so I can get the repairs done and get both B Pillars back in one piece rust free.. Just a couple of pictures showing my sheet metal dolly, and some others. 1 picture of the door overlap on the opening and another with the door just open.
pictures 3 and 4 also show the beat up area of the panel that I am going to need to address.

Tomorrow is "Tidy Friday" so I won't get a huge amount of work done but next week hopefully conditions will be good enough to shoot some primer on the work done.
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:21 PM
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This has become quite the learning experience. I was trying to get the last bit of the edge of the panel to move and I wasn't getting anymore movement. It seemed to be bouncing back.

I got out the the tape measure and level and a big framing square. I measured the B pillar position relative to the forward door frame and found a significant bow in the B pillar. Got out the square and found the B pillar was bowed about a full 1/4 inch and had a slight twist to the right.

I was having a hard time working the pillar back into place because I couldn't get my hammer on the back of the brace because of the quarter skin being in the way of some serious whoop a**. I don't have a porta power and even if I did I had no solid structure to push against.

I finally stumbled on a unique fix tor this situation. I have my aircraft tools and I have in them a ATS 3X aircraft grade pneumatic rivet gun.

I have a dozen or so dies for this gun and I selected a 1 inch flat surface tool for the gun. I have a regulator on this gun to adjust the strength and it has a variable trigger so I can slow the hammer rate to like bang bang bang. With the die I was able to get right up on the edges without hitting the skin. I was able to straighten the B pillar to like like new. I have some panel work to clean up what I inherited but the edge of the panel is almost perfect..
I will take a few pictures when I get the patch on the bottom of the quarter.

This is gettin kinda fun.
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