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  #256 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2005, 01:07 AM
 
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Oh ok.....hmmmm yeah rattle cans may be good for small spots 6"x6" areas or somthing to cover smaller repairs before painting but is not typically used for entire panels. One coat out of a rattle can is not enough material to protect carbon surfice. Rattle cans spray in a cone pattern therefore can be difficult to get even coverage throughout, especially over larger areas. You may want to have the ol' timer do the primer as well. I only say that so the that the top coat is not compromised as a result of a poor foundation. Also remember when dealing with bare carbon the metal should be thoughly sanded (not touched by bare hands) cleaned and covered within an hour.

Depends on material being sprayed but by the time you apply the base all the imperfections should be taken care of. It is ok to have some imperfections while in primer stage because now is the time to fix them. Ideally once bare metal is covered you can use a spot\glaze putty to fill or cover any imperfections.

Entire process should look like this. On bare metal use a DA with 180 grit disc, Once 180 sanded, clean with a wax\ grease remover i.e. PPG Acrylic Clean DX330 or other equal product (Apply and wife off immediatly) after 5 min or so after wiping shoot two coats of buff primer 10:1 reduction 50% overlap. Once primer is cured (wait an hour) apply spot putty \ glaze filler to pocks or any imperfections wait 20 min or so for filler to completely cure then block sand with 180 then 220 grit, clean away dust and apply 3rd coat of primer\sealer. Once 3rd coat is applied you can apply base coat color. If base coating is not to be shot with-in 7 days than you may want to scuff that 3rd primer coat using 320 and tack cloth off any dust prior to shooting the base. If using blitz black or any acrylic enamal be sure to use a acrylic enamel hardener. Some folks may say it optional but IMO its not and needs to be used. One other benefit to consider is if you use hardener and decide the flat black is not really what you wanted in 30 days and only if hardener was used you can actually shoot a clear coat over blitz.

Stuff below is really good and not as nearly as expensive as others at half the cost of PPG top products . $63 for a Gallon of Clear and $36 for quart of activator. Doing this would allow product to be a lot like a base\clear system at a fraction of the cost with all the avantages. Only draw back is you can't apply the clear for 30 days.

http://www.akzonobelcarrefinishes.ne...=65395&pid=448

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Last edited by multismith; 09-25-2005 at 01:24 AM.
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  #257 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2005, 01:09 PM
 
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I was always taught that body filler on bare metal is the best way to go and that you can put it over the primer but better on bare metal... ?
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  #258 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2005, 02:37 PM
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Rattle

Yeah, I also have a gallon of the primer that I will have him use. I know there are lot's of different perspectives on the JDBB but for my purposes I hope it will do. I'm running out of gas (and time) on the sanding so I'm going to take it to him tommorow and see what he thinks. The closer I look at the surface the more I am seeing area that have all these little craters, I guess the tree sap that got the hood and roof got vertical surfaces as well. I'm attaching a photo of what it looks like.
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Last edited by raven316; 09-25-2005 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Added photo
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  #259 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2005, 08:50 PM
 
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Don't paint over that. Sand the car down to bare metal. Either that or use some good ol' aircraft stripper. I dealt with that on the last job I did in a few spots and hard to feather edge it out because by the time you get them down your to the bare metal just about as it is.
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  #260 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2005, 02:05 PM
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Old paint

I was under the impression that I could paint over the old paint , when I sand the blue it comes off pretty easily. It is a repaint from about 17 years ago.
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  #261 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2005, 11:22 PM
 
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With JDBB you have to paint and/or primer to bare metal only.
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  #262 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2005, 10:20 AM
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Bare Metal

This is where I am getting confused, according to this it doesn't:

Read this and call Shawn below. Hes the man.
No one knows more than he does.

Valspar Paint, Makers of John Deere Blitz Black

#1. If the existing paint is relatively good condition (ie. no peeling paint, no large amount of rust, etc) no primer is needed. Scuff sand the existing paint with extra fine grit sandpaper, wipe surface with a clean cloth and then apply John Deere Blitz Black.

#2. If primer is used due to bare metal or minor surface defects, we suggest the John Deere Buff Primer (available in aerosols, quarts and gallons). This is a very "user friendly" formulation that provides good sandability, excellent filling/sealing properties and enhanced corrosion resistance.

#3. A reducer is needed for optimum sprayability and appearance. We suggest the use of the John Deere thinner/reducer (available in quarts gallon and fives). It is formulated specifically for John Deere paints. The mix ratio is 8 parts John Deere paint : 1 part John Deere thinner.

#4. John Deere Blitz Black is an "air dry" formulation...but if you want the paint to dry faster and harder, John Deere has a hardener in their product line. It is available in pints. The mix ratio is 8-1-1. 8 parts John Deere paint (TY25669 or TY6416) to 1 part hardener (REN3001) to 1 part John Deere thinner (PT158).

Some more info...the exact same formulation is used in the aerosols as in the quarts/gallons. This helps with touch-ups and is critical in low gloss applications such as the Blitz Black.

If any more information is needed, please contact me. I would also be very willing to discuss any paint questions directly with Jade at Moto-Edge.

Regards,

Shawn Mahady
General Manager
Aftermarket Specialties
phone 612-375-7942
e-mail [email protected]
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  #263 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2005, 10:26 AM
 
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Ok here is what I meant. Primer has to be used OVER BARE METAL. The paint can be sprayed over existing paint if in good shape. Not the primer....

Shawn-
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  #264 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2005, 12:11 PM
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Oh

Ah, got it. What I was thinking was to do as much sanding as I can in front of my house, hit it with the rattle cans, park it my my buddies garage and go back jack and do it again until I get it to where I can take it to the dude to paint. I was thinking, since I also bought a gallon of the John Deere primer that I'd have him shoot the primer on the entire truck and then go with the JJBB.
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  #265 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:43 AM
 
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Alright I'm thinking my painting sequence will be

-media blasting
-epoxy primer
-skim with bondo
-jd primer
-jd bb

Anybody tried this??? any forseen problems?
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  #266 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2005, 02:20 PM
 
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I don't see why it wouldn't work. Sounds like a good plan to me. I always go to bare metal and put the bondo over bare metal and then get it flat and straight and THEN when it's done I put about 2 coats of primer JUST OVER the bondo. Let it dry and then do the whole car. In between all that though I do a guide coat and make sure everything is flat. Get spray paint for the guide coat, it's cheap and easy. Whatever stays left of the guidecoat is where you have low spots. Sometimes you will have highspots and a lot of guide coat left but you will be able to tell that part easily.
Good luck!

Shawn-
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  #267 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deferr
Alright I'm thinking my painting sequence will be

-media blasting
-epoxy primer
-skim with bondo
-jd primer
-jd bb

Anybody tried this??? any forseen problems?
Yup deferr that is correct and is the best practice approach IMO. I Have not tried it ... but JD primer sealer as a third undercoat prior to BB should be fine and a lot cheaper than EP with activator. If you have any epoxy primer left I would just use it though. Many places I know only sell epoxy primer by the gallon but you could certainly save on the activator or use for a separate project maybe where bare metal needs AP

Last edited by multismith; 10-03-2005 at 11:13 PM.
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  #268 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2005, 09:59 PM
 
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hey fellas. im going to be shooting my 66' bug with the blitz soon. what kind of gun do you guys reccommend that is fairly cheap (under 100 bucks or so). I don't think I have a big enough compressor to run a HVLP gun. I just don't know what tip size will work best for the BB. Thanks.
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  #269 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2005, 05:02 PM
 
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HVLP is the way to go ...1.4 tip is ideal for most finishes. 1.4 worked great for me on both Blitz Black and U-Tech polybase and HS 4.0 clear. Primers \ epoxy primer \ sealers use a 1.7 tip. If you must go conventional use a gravity feed and not the siphon cup.

Believe it or not below is a good HVLP 3pc gun kit for under $100 click on URL below come with regulator 1.4 and 1.7 gun and cups. I'm only recommending them because I use this set myself and was happy with the results so far. Asking around does hurt but keep in mind there are so many choices. The higher end will have digital cap pressure readings but only body shops and professionals use them and really don't think they are needed for the occassional use from a home owner.

Vaper 3 Piece Dual Set Up HVLP Gravity Feed Spray Gun Kit

Last edited by multismith; 10-07-2005 at 05:09 PM.
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  #270 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2005, 08:31 PM
 
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Well this has been quite an intersting thread to read the whole way through.
I have planning on painting my '63 Hillman SuperMinx wagon in flat black and didn't want to spend to much. There is a John Deere dealer about 10 mintutes from my place, so I'll have to go and have a look and see if this stuff is available in Australia.

My Vespa Rat Scoot was painted with kill rust paint and a brush. The cold whether didn't help the brush strokes at all. The cost was zero though, as it was old paint I had lying around from painting my LandCruiser's engine bay and chassis rails after the 351C engine conversion.











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