A kid and his hot rod - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > General Discussion> Projects/Builds/My Ride
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2020, 08:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
The condition on the 428 I have is yet to be determined. I have not got the motor home yet. The octane numbers is just regular pump gas that is readily available near me. I have no issue in going to a higher octane. I am trying to stay with pump gas if I can. And as far as the budget there really is none but with that being said i would like to do as much of the work as i can. The 350 is a running motor and it gets down the road currently to get to car shows and cruise around town. The 428 is a project over the next year or two there is no rush i have plenty of other things that need done as well. The reason I am starting to learn about what direction I need to go to start collecting parts and stashing them away. I plan on getting the motor home sometime this week and tearing into it to find out exactly what I have and I can update where we are then. I have alsonready about the cooling issues with the pontiac motors is this something that can be solved with say a waterman water pump?

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2020, 08:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Man i really need to spell check it is supposed to read.... i have also read about the cooling issues on the pontiacs can this be solved with a waterman pump?

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2020, 11:15 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA
Age: 78
Posts: 17,391
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 2,073
Thanked 3,033 Times in 2,258 Posts
Pontiac speed merchants....
https://www.tinindianperformance.com/
https://butlerperformance.com/
https://www.campbellenterprises.com/...ed-Part_14.mks

Here are 3 different styles of Pontiac heads by Edelbrock….look 'em over....
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...9/make/pontiac
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...9/make/pontiac
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...9/make/pontiac
Pontiac Hunters - Pontiac Cylinder Heads
Butler Performance - Edelbrock Aluminum D Port Pontiac Cylinder Heads

Here's a set of +.030" forged pistons....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sealed-Powe....c100752.m1982

And a set of +.060"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sealed-Powe....c100005.m1851

Just shoppin' around to see what I could see....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:15 AM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 53
Posts: 18,603
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 302
Thanked 3,573 Times in 2,976 Posts
Techinspector, those two L2262F pistons you linked are 400 pistons, not 428. Compression height is .125" too tall for the 428.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 06:03 AM
rip-tide's Avatar
Magazines have “ISSUES”
 

Last journal entry: Looks good
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 995
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 344 Times in 251 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob37pont View Post
" My question is where should I start with this 428 motor. I'm looking to make this lead sled move a little better down the road but still be able to take my beautiful woman for a sunday cruise without scaring the absolute crap out of her."

The answer to this question begins with your right foot.
Nice project!

LMAO

The very same thought crossed my mind when I read that. Can't control that, don't get behind the wheel.

OP make sure the budget, has the funds to do the suspension, and the rest of the drive train. The car a full frame ? Just the other side of big power and reality.

Last edited by rip-tide; 03-15-2020 at 06:09 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 07:20 AM
idrivejunk's Avatar
Grand Prix User
 

Last journal entry: Last look
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NW AR, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 4,687
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5,440
Thanked 6,709 Times in 3,822 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstewart7397 View Post
The condition on the 428 I have is yet to be determined. I have not got the motor home yet. The octane numbers is just regular pump gas that is readily available near me. I have no issue in going to a higher octane. I am trying to stay with pump gas if I can. And as far as the budget there really is none but with that being said i would like to do as much of the work as i can. The 350 is a running motor and it gets down the road currently to get to car shows and cruise around town. The 428 is a project over the next year or two there is no rush i have plenty of other things that need done as well. The reason I am starting to learn about what direction I need to go to start collecting parts and stashing them away. I plan on getting the motor home sometime this week and tearing into it to find out exactly what I have and I can update where we are then. I have alsonready about the cooling issues with the pontiac motors is this something that can be solved with say a waterman water pump?

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
You might want to repeat that part about no budget so everyone understands that.

Collect and stash often doesn't work out. Wait to buy everything until you can get it all at once. Things change. Machinists like to select key components such as pistons and bearings for themselves. You will require machine work IF the 428 is ailing.

I heard you when you said you want to do the work yourself and are wanting to tear the 428 apart immediately, but it may be best to stop short of that. Your machinist might prefer to see the engine internals come apart in order to spot problems and avoid mixing up rod caps and such. Ask if he wants a pile or a long block.

Pontiac sold lots and lots of V8s. That would not have happened if inherent cooling problems were present. Excessive water pump impeller to divider plate clearance is a common cause of that issue and as with many things, its not what you use but how.

Heres where I may get hammered for suggesting an old book. Knowledge is power. Power to the Pontiacs!

https://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Per.../dp/1884089674
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 07:28 AM
idrivejunk's Avatar
Grand Prix User
 

Last journal entry: Last look
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NW AR, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 4,687
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5,440
Thanked 6,709 Times in 3,822 Posts
About that 98 octane... around here, yes there is one pump where 98 can be purchased for around $7.50 a gallon last time I checked. Its half and half, 94 and 104 mixed. For street use the only thing that makes sense to me is to build for ethanol-spiked 91 octane because that is the best gas available at sane prices and can be easily found. Unlike 98. If the world were full of 98 octane gas stations, there would be no reason not to use up the 428 in stock form.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:56 AM
techinspector1's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA
Age: 78
Posts: 17,391
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 2,073
Thanked 3,033 Times in 2,258 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72 View Post
Techinspector, those two L2262F pistons you linked are 400 pistons, not 428. Compression height is .125" too tall for the 428.
Thank you Eric, I didn't think to check that, put 428 in the search and just took the vendors word for it. Shame on me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 11:46 AM
Too Many Projects's Avatar
Collector of "someday" cars
 

Last journal entry: continued
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: River Falls, WI
Posts: 1,989
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3,150
Thanked 5,590 Times in 3,068 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rip-tide View Post
LMAO

The very same thought crossed my mind when I read that. Can't control that, don't get behind the wheel.

OP make sure the budget, has the funds to do the suspension, and the rest of the drive train. The car a full frame ? Just the other side of big power and reality.
Yes, the A bodies are full frame. And you are correct in mentioning the rest of the drive train, the trans in particular isn't going to hold up to a 428, in stock form. The TH350 can easily be built to handle the torque of the 428 and should be done at the same time, to avoid removing it a short time later to rebuild. Also, the rear axle may still be the 8.2 10 bolt, rather than the better 8.5 and would succumb to the high torque in time too. Not sure when Pontiac went to the 8.5 behind the 350, but the '73-74 A body axles should be the 8.5 and a direct swap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
About that 98 octane... around here, yes there is one pump where 98 can be purchased for around $7.50 a gallon last time I checked. Its half and half, 94 and 104 mixed. For street use the only thing that makes sense to me is to build for ethanol-spiked 91 octane because that is the best gas available at sane prices and can be easily found. Unlike 98. If the world were full of 98 octane gas stations, there would be no reason not to use up the 428 in stock form.
Yeah, I haven't seen 98 octane premium around here for some years. 91-93 is the best I've seen and he'll need non-oxy to keep the carb, unless his renew kit is compatible with alcohol blended fuels.
Speaking of alcohol, since you are starting from scratch, would it make sense to build the engine for E85-88 ? There is more power available with that fuel, but the carb/injection system would need to be compatible. I'm not an efi guy, so no clue what the aftermarket systems are made to deal with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
So i talked to the fella that had this motor before me and here is what I got. It was a 400 bored out to a 428 he purchased 6x pontiac heads. The motor should be a 10.1 compression ratio. The heads have been three way ground it still has the tappets not hydraulic lifters. It has a 428 crankshaft. He is not sure on what camshaft is in it. As far as the pistons goes he cannot remember what they are seeing as the motor was done 15 plus years ago. It has never been in a car or started its still in pieces the heads are off and in a box. I went over to see about getting the motor out of the garage but I couldnt get to it as the yard was a muddy mess. So with this being said the bore and everything is a fresh machine so I shouldnt have to alter anything unless I decide on a diffrent piston style. I will be going to hydraulic lifters. He said with the route he was going he was pushing for somewhere around 500 hp with the carburetor. I was also informed that there is a tri power set up hiding in the garage as well and if I can find it I i can have it.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to dstewart7397 For This Useful Post:
123pugsy (03-16-2020)
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:47 PM
idrivejunk's Avatar
Grand Prix User
 

Last journal entry: Last look
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NW AR, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 4,687
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5,440
Thanked 6,709 Times in 3,822 Posts
That sounds promising!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2020, 07:03 AM
Too Many Projects's Avatar
Collector of "someday" cars
 

Last journal entry: continued
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: River Falls, WI
Posts: 1,989
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3,150
Thanked 5,590 Times in 3,068 Posts
15 years on freshly machined surfaces could be an issue, if they weren't coated in oil/grease. Surface rust forms quickly on bare metal and the block may need honing to clean up. Hopefully the crank journals aren't rusty.

The parts list does sound reasonable. I don't understand why he claims it doesn't have hydraulic lifters, as all Pontiac V8's in that time period had them. "Tappets" would seem to refer to solid lifters and possibly they are, if aftermarket.

Guess you won't know for certain, until you can get it all home and inspected. Good luck..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Okay fellas, I rebuilt the carb for the 350 a holley classic 750cfm and now the secondaries are flooding it out. I have adusted the floats all the way down but I cannot get the fuel to regulate in the bowls. Where do I go from here? Do I bite the bullet and go ahead and pull the trigger on the fitech system and just swap it over to the other motor when I get there or do I spend the 440$ to replace the carb thats on it now if I cannot figure out this fueling issue?

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:14 PM
idrivejunk's Avatar
Grand Prix User
 

Last journal entry: Last look
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NW AR, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 4,687
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5,440
Thanked 6,709 Times in 3,822 Posts
I don't know squat about Holleys but is there a fuel pressure regulator in place? You would probably get all the answers if you post a thread in the right forum section with a descriptive title. Lots of helpful experienced ones here, I am just a bodyman.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2020, 12:01 AM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 53
Posts: 18,603
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 302
Thanked 3,573 Times in 2,976 Posts
Nothing wrong with the current carb that can't be simply fixed.

There are only about 3 things that will prevent the Holley needle and seat from doing its job.

There is a o-ring around the body of the needle cartridge, if the old needle and seats were re-used but the o-ring not replaced fuel will go around the o-ring into the bowl instead of though he needle/seat and thus not be controlled. Not lubing a new o-ring or new needle and seat before installing it can lead to it getting pinched, nicked, or scuffed and be no good too. Check that.
Dirt/debris in the needle and seat is another possibility.
Third is float tab that contacts the needle got bent down and no longer contacts and lifts the needle to shut off flow.

Pull the bowl off and check those things, along with resetting the basic float height - 7/16" between top of float and underside of the top of the bowl, when holding the bowl upside down. A 7/16" drill bit makes a good measurement tool for this.

With everything checked and reset, invert the bowl and blow into the inlet fitting, needle and seat should be sealed then...if it isn't re-investigate why.

Way too high fuel pressure is also a possibility...but only if you've not run this engine with the current pump and a different carb...if it worked before, it would still be fine....but if pump is new, then it could be suspect.

No reason to replace carb just because of a simple flood issue that can be fixed.

Last edited by ericnova72; 04-08-2020 at 12:07 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to ericnova72 For This Useful Post:
Too Many Projects (04-08-2020)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.