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bullheimer 12-04-2004 03:58 PM

"a little over" turns into $4500 over for paint job
so am i the only one that thinks if i give a paint shop an ins. check for $4000 and he says right away what i want will cost me more than that, and i say well try to keep it down cause money is tight and then he says he has to fix rocker panels and he says it wont be more than $400 and then he says he had to replace part of the rear quarter panel behind the back tires, and i acknowledge the stripes i want will be $700 extra and i know i have to pay for glass too, should i be in shock when he says, without any glass being in the car yet, that he has 170 hours in the car?? it had about 15 small dents from a pipe on the car and the new hood had to be aligned and a shipping dent removed as well. at $45 an hour, yeah he's cheap on that, it still comes out to like $8500. should i be feeling like i am getting alittle bit shafted? or should i feel good that he is the best guy in this part of the state and all his cars win trophies?

crazy larry 12-04-2004 04:18 PM

Hey Bull, thats an awesomely ****** paint job man. I hope you get years of great service out of it.:thumbup: stay positive bro.:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Restore60s 12-04-2004 04:33 PM

A little Over???????????/
I would be very upset no matter who it is to run that far over without contacting me first. To tell the truth about it that is aganist the Law. That's not right,....not at all. The insurance check plus what you were expecting to be added is what I would pay and only that. Without your express consent on a repair order you cannot be overcharged that much without you being notified and I would say any judge in America feels the same way.
The 70 Vette we did a ground up restoration on EACH phase had to be put in writing and given to the customer before we could spend any of HIS money. If parts prices changed on anything other than what we quoted, we had to eat the difference. But the customer knew everyday what I was doing. The main reason we do that is to keep someone from taking us to court for an unauthorized repair.
No matter how great your work is you must tell the customer before extra work is done that exceeds $200 over the estimate.

stuartc 12-04-2004 04:40 PM

have you got any pics before the car went in ?if so put them on and we will get a better idear
170 divde that buy 40hrs a week that comes to 4 weeks and 1 day of labour that alot of time tell them to buy some air tools?

AngliaBob 12-04-2004 04:58 PM

If you brought your car to the best guy you knew, and he has a good reputation; He will stand behind his work. I spent 6500 on my paint, I could have had it done for 3500, but I knew the guy I dealt with would stand behind his work, so, I went for the 6500 job. My buddy, on the other hand, went for a 3500 job on his 41 Willys and has been crying about it from day one. Now he is legally pursuing getting money back, so, I guess you get what you pay for.

Kevin45 12-04-2004 05:51 PM

All I gotta say is that there is no way in hell it is worth $8500. That's my opinion!!! Grab the vaseline Bull and grab your ankles. You need to move to the other side of the country. That kind of money brings a car back from the dead.


pmeisel 12-04-2004 05:56 PM

If you know the guy's work, then you knew you were trusting him to decide how much you would spend, right?

Around here I see more with boats than cars... there's one guy who does great work, but I won't let him touch my boat because HE DECIDES how much is enough, how long it's going to take, etc. I do most of my own but when I do call somebody I want a plus or minus 10% estimat on the price and within a week or two of when the job will be done.

Good fences make good neighbors.

I prefer to deal with craftsmen rather than artists; craftsmen understand that the work and money is your property. Artists...

adtkart 12-04-2004 09:27 PM

Well.... I must say that this has been an entertaining post to read. Punctuation may have made it easier. I read it 2 times, and still am not sure exactly what it says, except that it appears that you feel like you were over charged.

If I am dealing with a couple of dollars, we will make a verbal agreement. If we are talking a couple of hundred, it will be in writing.

Laws in most states differ, but most have something to protect the consumers. I would check on legal recourse.

Dutchman 12-04-2004 11:07 PM

You know you had a bulheimer day when...

Lets see a pic bull. Do you like the completed job?


Nightfire 12-04-2004 11:23 PM

dude from this

to this

I dont know if that's worth 8500 but that's a very clean nice paint job!


jeeptuff 12-05-2004 08:02 PM

Challenge him, $4500 over is ridiculous. Did you have it done in Mt. Vernon or ???? I'll research the local laws here in Wa. state to see what I can come up with..

pzatchok 12-06-2004 01:11 AM

I'm sorry to say but I too think you paid a bit much.

But remember. I live in Ohio were things go a bit loose on the environmental laws. And I also do all my own work.

I don't think though he should have had more than 20 to 25 hours in that body. Even with replacing those parts. I've replaced a whole floor, both inner and outer rockers and one rear quarter on a car in less than 30 hours.

Sorry but I would really look into this one.

Maybe someone who does this professionally can come up with a better time estimate than me.

MARTINSR 12-06-2004 05:58 AM

You guys don't keep an honest record of the time you spend on your car I'll tell you that!

30 hours to replace a floor, both inner and outer rockers AND a quarter? Man, if you are not a pro you are missing out on a great living. You would me making six figures at a commission shop!

170 hours is very realistic on a complete with panel changes, a color change and body repair.

That being said the guy was WAY out of line for not letting you know how it was going. Either he is a total thief, a moron, or YOU gave him the wrong impression.

mrcleanr6 12-06-2004 07:29 AM

i have to agree with martinsr. i am not surprised by the time he spent but he should have let you know if as soon as the price changed from the original estimate. i dont think i've done a car to date that i put less time in than that, atleast to get a nice flawless finish. if it was done right and when you look down the side of the car there isn't the slightest wave or ripple anywhere then i think the guy is being very honest on the time part of it. really there are many different levels of flawless, it just depends on how deep you want to get. someone could spend 1000 hours on it if thats the kind of paintjob you wanted. i have a 61 corvette here that i will have somewhere around 450 hours in when done but again if the guy does show car type paintwork he should have gone over all this stuff with you first to find out what exactly you wanted and what your budget is while also letting you know if anything changes down the road. he is wrong about that and i would be pissed, its just poor business. shafted?? well, maybe or maybe not but it really depends on the quality of the job and i dont think anyone can tell that by looking at pics on the internet, thats something that needs to be seen in person.

MARTINSR 12-06-2004 10:22 AM

MrClean, you really hit it, "how deep do you want to get?" The year my brother and I showed his '22 Buick Roadster in the "Grand National Roadster show" (a very prestigious show on the west coast) the car that won best in his class of "altered street roadster" and took the coveted "Americas Most Beautiful Roadster" award had a $65,000 paint job! And that was "discounted" as it was rumored the painter (I forget the guys name "junior" comes to mind, he use to work for George Barris in the old days) spent 1750 hours on the paint alone!!!

However, just because someone spent the time doesn't mean they did the job that time would result in if you knew what the heck you were doing. As I have said many times, the home hobbyist with no experiance can do a heck of a show quality paint job just because of the fact that he has the time to do it.

My brother has a 55 Ford pickup that my dad "rodded" back in 1965. He recently had the body and paint done at a "friends" shop. I do NO side work what so ever nor do I have a place to do such a big job and so he sent it out. He had an appointment to do it where I work but was pushed back a little on the schedule and got impatient. And took it to this "friend" who said he would do it for about $8,500.00. Now, mind you, this was a "decent" 55 Ford truck cab and fenders. "Decent" means it will need every square inch worked as with all 50 year old metal, but no serious metal shaping and all patch panels were welded in. From the cab back was NEW, brand new OEM Ford fenders and a beautiful repro bed. One NOS running board, the other I had already done. So, with just the cab and front clip to do and paint the whole thing (the frame was already done, all in black) for the $8,500.00. Well, one thing led to another and it ended up being $20,000!!!! No change in work, nothing added, the truck was stripped to bare metal and in etch primer so he could see EXACTLY what he had to work with.
This &%#ing MORON, THIEF, put 300 hours in this truck. Now the real sad part, it is NO WHERE NEAR "show car" work. This is a "driver" and it wasn't even good enough for that! My STUPID brother paid him and took the truck. After complaining to him about the work he gave back $2,500.00 (I hope he doesn't die from enlargment of the heart). My brother still has to have the cab painted again being it is three different colors! The MORON didn't buy enough paint and bought another quart here and there and the truck ended up like a friggin patch work quilt!

The texture was SOOOOOOOOO rough it looked like gravel guard. In fact, using gravel guard at work seldom gives you the kind of texture this MORON ended up with. Hows this for a kicker, the &*#%@#^$ CHARGED MY BROTHER BY THE HOUR to buff the paint out just to make it presentable!! Any normal shops "out of the booth done" job would have been fine for my brother (well, maybe a little shoe shine) this MORON couldn't do that to save his life!

So, I now find myself doing bodywork over. Oh, by the way, a few of these panels were reshot because the guy left dents in them! We are talking DENTS not "waves" or less than show car flawless kinda stuff like my brother was picky. We are talking Quarter sized 1/8" deep dents. The guy did things like moulding off welds that couldn't even be seen when the truck was together yet left things like these dings, and a crack in the back of the hood, and dents on the dash board, and.............

If you didn't notice this subject kinda ticks me off. :boxing:

This guy is one of those guys who makes me hate the "every painter does things a little different" comment I often see. This MORON does cars that end up pretty nice, yet he knows NOTHING. He can eventually redo mistakes, repaint mistakes, cut and buff to a nice shine but that doesn't mean he is just doing it "different" than I would do. It means he is doing it WRONG and he just makes do. Ok, I think I will go have my cavities filled. No kidding, I am leaving right now to go to the dentist. I rather go there than think about that MORON anyway.

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