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Old 01-31-2017, 10:49 PM
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looking for suggestions on rust repair.

So here is the deal. I need to do some rust repair on my inner deck lid for my 27 T coupe. There are some spots where a quarter shapped patch will do and then there are some areas that will need more extensive work.

I just uploaded 9 photos of the damage to the inner structure. These photos are located in my project journal. It pretty much shows all the areas that needs attention.

Should I look to replace larger amounts of structure and hand form new pieces of sheet metal and weld in new sections or just work with the areas are rusted through with a bunch of smaller patches and hope for enough meat left to weld to. I have to be careful here cause they don't make this part in the re pop or OEM world. To find a good inner structure you are still going to pay in blood. Used deck lids in serviceable condition are in the unobtainum price range.

The worse part of this structure is the left side left rear corner Some right side and right rear corner.

I would be open to advice on how to move forward as I am not a body man but an average hobby metal man.

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Old 02-01-2017, 05:27 AM
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Making a new panel is doable. But then I would hope you could sign up over at metalmeet.com as those guys just do sheet metal. Too many tips and kinks to outline in a thread here.

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Old 02-13-2017, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
I would have to do that in small patches a couple of inches or so at a time grind down the welds and move on to the next area.

Of course making a new panel from scratch is the way to go. I would be hard pressed to make a panel that size with tools at hand probably the same for most hot rodders. But i would bet someone out there has made custom panels for this. Of course they would probably be expensive.

I would think that if you cut a nice square section off the edge of the panel and replace it with new metal. A pro would probably do it this way in three big chunks.

Have you considered a less complex replacement panel for your deck lid. You may not need all the metal work to just skin the panel. Of course this would not look original but could be made to look very smooth and custom. Would probably just as much work as any other way to go about it.

I guess in short i have no answer for you since im sure you have considered all this already.

Well not a lot of suggestions so far. This is where I am. I made several patches and they even looked prety good. Problem is Trying to weld a patch in there is blowing holes with either Mig or gas. Gas was better but still the steel is so pitted it blows up trying to weld it.

I will need to replace a lot more of the panel than first thought because of the deep rust pitting.

Now this worries me a bit because of whats required skill wise to make these larger pieces. I can't make a complete panel as my slip roll is only 30" wide. The deck lid shell is 35. That does not take into consideration for the material for the flanges.

I do not have access to a English Wheel that would be needed to put the crown left to right in the panel.

What do you think it would take to have a pro make a replacement panel. It doesn't have to look oem just fit and function.

Finally, I may have located a inner frame for a 27 T Coupe but it, like everything else, is Expensive. $275.00. I will be getting some pictures of it tomorrow to decide if it is worth it.

I hate to back away from a challenge but This car is going to be built well and not cutting corners with lipstick and magic.

If anyone has any last minute ideas how I can recover this this piece of junk please speak up.

I am adding some photos showing just showing what I am up against.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:52 PM
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When I am welding on something like that I use a copper spoon to back the weld with. Weld does not stick to copper but the copper wicks away excess heat so you do not burn through as quick. I made mine by flattening a piece of copper pipe.

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Old 02-13-2017, 10:37 PM
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I will answer a couple a suggestions.
First off the listed inner shells are roadster deck lid shells. There is a real big difference between the two. on the roadster the front edge of the deck lid just ends in a gentle curve left and right. On a T Coupe deck it has a uplift in the front edge that meets the rear window area below and behind.

When looking at the profile of a coupe deck it has a somewhat of a S shape.

When looking at the roadster deck lid it is just a simple arc basically, a half circle. the coupe is a half circle with a turn up on one end of the arc.

Lots a roadster deck lid inner shells but no coupe being built.

Oh a word of warning when dealing with Howells.

1. They refuse to answer emails
2. They refuse to answer the phone or return any messages.
3. You do not know if they have the part in their stock.
4. The part you need may be out of stock and they won't make any more parts for at least 6 months to a year. However they won't tell you.

I try to deal with reputable companies that will at least talk to you, and get their reproduction parts from Howells, If I need anything that Howells caries I may pay a few bucks more for the part but I get it from someone that has to get it from Howells. That way I have one contact point and let them deal with Howells. It just doesn't pay to have to keep hammering on them to at least ship whats ordered. Just last week I received a cross sill that Howells had drug their feet on since November 2016. it was accidentally left out of aa order of 3 they sent me 2 and said it was 3


OK back off the soapbox. Do you know how hard it is to balance a wheelchair on a soapbox?

I thought of picking up a shell for the roadster and cutting the aft portion. Then graft the new roadster section to the coupe shell. Ah I had a hart arrhythmia on the price for a roadster shell.

I haven't seen anything cost effective yet so This may turn into a head scratch-er!

Update:*************

I may have located a shell. All I know is he has one, but he was setting down to Supper so I told him I would call him tomorrow morning to discuss the thing. It is supposed to be a complete deck lid that needs new skin, Hmm sounds familiar.

Onward I guess,
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:10 PM
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Yess Howells is a crap shoot. My understand is they are the major supplier of T & A parts. They sell to people like Macs, Schneider's, etc.
I have heard it is a family operation and their business plan is to supply the biggest buyers first and then sell parts to the little minions as they feel like it.

I personally don't like the plan but if he is still making money then he does something right! He just has lousy customer lack of service.

Solution for panel.

I may have Found a good replacement inner panel. As I mentioned previously I found a deck lid that is supposed to be a good solid non rusty deck Lid. The skin on the frame has been cut up like someone had used a can opener on it. I asked if he could shoot me a couple of photos of the detail areas where the frames rust through. He said give him a list of the shots and he would send them to me tomorrow! I told him I would take it if it is in good non repair needing shape.

So I will use a replacement for my Coupe but I am still interested in learning more metal shaping. I have a sheet of steel that was going to be patch material but I think I might try to make a 2 piece inner shell just for the heck of it. That way I can sharpen my skills and have a spare shell.

I will revisit this in the near future and then open the 2 piece shell for suggestions.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:22 PM
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Any updates?

If you need to eat an elephant, one bite at a time will do it.
If you want a nice repair, do it yourself in small bits, taking your time as you go to get the pieces perfect.

Note: If the metal is blowing holes, you need to cut further back, or......
..... if blowing holes, allow it to get bigger. It's a good thing because the micro thin edge will go back until it gets to thicker material.
Only then can it be welded without cracking upon clean up.

I've seen many attempts to try to get these areas welded up by trying to "stretch" tacks across them. It never works.
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:23 PM
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Ok Rip. Like Pugsy said "one bite at a time". Take this area and brake it down into smaller bites.

[/URL]

You can make these four pieces individually with your shrinker/stretcher. Make the pieces and weld them together before you join them to your decklid. That will reduce the distortion in the deck lid and let you focus on making the piece fit BEFORE you weld on your deck lid. The secret is breaking it down into small manageable pieces, creating the "assembled" patch and then welding it into the decklid.

Doing it this way will limit the distortion to your deck lid caused by welding in small patch after small patch.

Ok now. Go eat that elephant.

John
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:07 AM
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Thanks John.

We can walk you thru this RIP.

Start by making one little piece and report back.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:10 AM
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Hey guys, Thanks for the suggestions on this Elephant. I am going to nibble at it one bite at a time.

The last 4 days I have been like John, figuring measuring and troubleshooting. I got my garage door opener that I was going to use on my bead roller down from storage in the rafters. I tore it down and Now can not get the motor to run. I think it may be toast so I am going to shift gears and go the route of the HF winch to power my bead roller. However I still need to pick up a 30amp dc supply and a Pulse with modulator.

So my quick conversion is going to wait a bit. In the meantime I am going to get back on this deck lid shell.

John you mentioned breaking it down to several smaller bites. That makes sense. I think I am going to make the ends that go into the deck lid at the aft seams. I am going into town today to get my annual haircut. Time to go from an old hippie back to an cranky old man with no hair. When I return I am going to lay out the shell and measure and make a template to work with.

The hardest part or this will be making the outside edge. the only foggy part is where the edge ends and transitions to the last part of the panel. That may be the hardest part but I do not have to replicate it that way.

Stay tuned and I will put together a plan to do this. I have no excuse now not to do it. The shrink stretcher stand and Bead roller stand are done. The bead roller is not motorized yet but I can use it using people power. I will work a plan to have the wife come out and turn it while I form a bead.

Well off to the sheep shearer or should I say barber. Thanks again guys.
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:13 PM
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When you need to make a detail like you have on your deck lid Rip, turn one lip up and the other down. Use your shrinker/stretcher to get your contour and then join the panels. Here is an example from my floorboards.

John


First panel turned down and formed with the shrinker.



Second panel tirned up and formed with the stretcher.



Two panels joined together with correct contour.



I would make the entire patch and have it ready to weld in before I ever cut the deck lid. That way you have not messed with your pattern and will only have the one weld to cause any issues as far as shrinkage or distortion goes.

Good luck buddy. The hair cut looks great!

John
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
When you need to make a detail like you have on your deck lid Rip, turn one lip up and the other down. Use your shrinker/stretcher to get your contour and then join the panels. Here is an example from my floorboards.

John


First panel turned down and formed with the shrinker.



Second panel tirned up and formed with the stretcher.


Two panels joined together with correct contour.

I would make the entire patch and have it ready to weld in before I ever cut the deck lid. That way you have not messed with your pattern and will only have the one weld to cause any issues as far as shrinkage or distortion goes.

Good luck buddy. The hair cut looks great!

John
What the heck?
He never sent me a pic of his haircut.

Agree with John.
Piece together your patch panel and then install it as one onto your skin.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:40 PM
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You guys make it look so easy. I have an area in mind that I think I can start on that isn't real complicated. Lets see what happens.

So the show begins.. stay tuned for further progress...

Oh here is before and after..
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:45 PM
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I see you wear your hair with a wide center part too..........

John
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:54 PM
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Shhhhh John don't let our secret out.. I actually part mine wide so when I am under a car and need more light I shine the drop above my head I can see for miles....
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