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Old 09-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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Muncie M22 fit?

I have a 79 camaro with a 4 speed saginaw attached to an 11" clutch and 383 stoker. Will a m22 bolt right up to the bell housing and will all the parts fit?

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Old 09-03-2014, 03:47 PM
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. As far as I know it does... not sure about diameter of throwout bearing sleeve... is it a real M22 with the less angled/noisy/stronger gears? 2.20:1 1st gear? Or M20//M21?

. T50, T5, and T56 also bolt up as far as I know... as do the 3-speeds... sometimes clutch disc change needed for 11 or 26 splines...

. Don't try this at home with Fords, kids... LOL!
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:02 PM
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It's a real m22. What would be better 20/21/22? It's a 383 with 4.11s
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:10 PM
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. The M20 is stronger, but noisy "the rock crusher" tranny, and you have enough rear gear to use the 2.20:1 first gear...

. M20/M21 have more helical gears, so quieter, but not quite as strong... one has 2.20 1st and other has 2.54 1st... I can never remember which is which...

. 2.20 is 'close ratio box' more for racing... less RPMs drop between gears...
. 2.54 is 'wide ratio box' for street use launching with milder rear end gears...
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:20 PM
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Any Muncie four speed will bolt up in place of a Saginaw four speed. The bolt pattern, bearing retainer diameter, and overall length are exactly the same. You can reuse the original driveshaft. The only issue is that M22s use the larger yoke from a TH400. Lesser Muncies use the smaller yoke as seen on the TH350 and Saginaw transmissions.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:24 PM
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. So need a hybrid U-joint?
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Any Muncie four speed will bolt up in place of a Saginaw four speed. The bolt pattern, bearing retainer diameter, and overall length are exactly the same. You can reuse the original driveshaft. The only issue is that M22s use the larger yoke from a TH400. Lesser Muncies use the smaller yoke as seen on the TH350 and Saginaw transmissions.
I believe there was something about fine spline and larger input shaft...Could be wrong, its been 40 years for me
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:34 PM
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Depending on the year of the M-22, there will be input and output spline count differences.

1970 and later M-22(IIRC) and all 1971-later Muncie M-20/21/22 has 26 spline input and 32 spline output(same output yoke as TH-400).

Earlier Muncies have the 10 spline input(same as Saginaw) and 27 spline output, same as Saginaw/Powerglide/TH-350.

All the other basic dimensions are the same, length, bolt pattern, input retainer diameter.

Last edited by ericnova72; 09-03-2014 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:51 AM
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With the easy access to adapter U joints, and clutch discs, the swap to an M22 or Super T10 is pretty easy, and not too expensive. One thing I don't recall for sure, but the speedo output might be in a different location on the M22. I know it is on the Super T10, which needs a longer cable to do the swap.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:43 AM
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Be careful when going from 27 to 32 splines (turbo 350 yoke to turbo 400) there is a small length difference, about half an inch; Its all in the turbo 400 sized tailhousing, to get the bigger bushing and seal in there. Also, the earlier (27 spline) Muncies have 5 shifter-mount holes, the 32 spline tailhousings only have 3. This means that your shifter will move as well.
There is the 11" clutch housing that was from trucks, which had a trainsmission retainer over 5" in diameter; your standard car Muncie is less than 5" in diameter.
Your Saginaw shifter wont work well on the muncie. Muncie's have the reverse lever in the tail housing; Saginaws are in the sidecover. A T10 shifter will work on a Muncie with a little bit of finageling.

M20s have a 2.52 1st gear
M21s have a 2.20 1st gear
M22s have a 2.20 1st gear but a more aggressive tooth shape for more strength, than the M21.
You can absolutely have an M22 with a 7/8th diameter countershaft, a 10 spline input and 27 spline output. VERY rare if it was built like that from the factory.
You will see that MOST M22s are 26/32 splines; but they did exist as 10/27 (mostly with a 1" countershaft diameter)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72 View Post
Depending on the year of the M-22, there will be input and output spline count differences.

1970 and later M-22(IIRC) and all 1971-later Muncie M-20/21/22 has 26 spline input and 32 spline output(same output yoke as TH-400).

Earlier Muncies have the 10 spline input(same as Saginaw) and 27 spline output, same as Saginaw/Powerglide/TH-350.

All the other basic dimensions are the same, length, bolt pattern, input retainer diameter.
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