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Old 11-15-2013, 09:09 PM
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My first sbc build

Let me start off by stating that I come from the import world, I know a fair bit about fixing engines and have put a few together but am new to building them.
My uncle recruited me for a project, building a 350 for a car that he found. He said he wants about 450hp out of it, and wants it to be reliable and streetable. All I have to start with is a one piece rear, 4 bolt main 350 block factory set up for roller lifters. I am going to make this my official question thread and hopefully you guys can help me through this and we can make a sweet engine. (did I mention that money is no issue "as long as cost doesn't get insane" )
So first off I was thinking Scat 383 rotating assembly, specifically part number 1-41823BIE. Forged crank, forged 6" connecting rods, forged +5cc flat top pistons. The kit comes balanced and includes main and rod bearings, and piston rings. Any reviews on these Scat rotating assemblies? Are they good quality? How fast do you think I could spin this assembly?
Second the heads, This needs to be a street car, so 93 octane fuel. I was thinking 72cc head which would give about 10:1 comp ratio according to scat. I was thinking dart heads. Specifically the 215cc iron eagles. (Spec sheet here) Are these good heads? Should I step it up to the 230cc heads? ($60 more for the pair) The disadvantage of the 230cc heads is that they require solid lifters.
What are your opinions on iron vs aluminum heads? Its 300 more to go aluminum and I do not like the idea of dissimilar metals for the block and heads (different expansion contraction, dissimilar metals promote corrosion/electrolysis in the coolant). So What are the disadvantages of iron heads?
That is as far as I have figured so far, but I was thinking edlebrock RPM intake, 700cfm 4-barrel carb, probably HEI distributor, possibly a MSD 6A ignition module, and I'm assuming a stall converter. I don't even know where to start on the valve train, I know nothing about picking out a cam, and I can't pick the lifters or rockers till I decide on the head.

A little extra information, this will be going in a 71 Nova with a 4L60E behind it.

Looking for any help and/or advise from the experts. Like I said this will be my official question thread and I will keep it updated on how the build is going. Hopefully with your help we will be able to make a sweet engine.
Thanks!

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:34 PM
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you will need a roller cam like
110635-10 NA 290 290 237 237 .560 .560 110 106 Hyd. Hyd. 1,2
2400-6400 Rough idle, Street/Strip, strong mid range. 10.0:1 CR, 2500+ stall.
use a 750 cfm carb and RPM intake
this should get you close to 450 HP
need good headers too
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:38 PM
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Street strip? Bigger then average budget?

383 Chevy,
*11.1:1 CR
*SRP Pro series flat top pistons*
Scat 4130 crank*
Oliver 6" rods*
UD Harold Solid roller... 255/263 @.050 .640"in/exh
*Crower HIPPO lifters
*Lunati ROller ROckers- 1.6int/1.6exh*
Pro-Filer 210s done by Chad Speier ( 2.08/1.60 "econo" ported")
*Holley 300-25 Strip Dominator intake ( gasket matched)*
Holley 850HP
*2" HVH Super Sucker spacer*

588hp at 6500
514ft/pds at 5000
93 octane
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:02 PM
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Here's a formula for a 500/500 383.....
Chevy 383 Engine - We Build a Small-Block That Makes 500HP and 500 LB-FT - Hot Rod Magazine
A 503/517, this time built for and dyno'd by AirFlow Research....see the first combo on this page.....
Air Flow Research
See the second build here, 538/506
Small Block Chevy Engines - 400HP 383 Engine - Super Chevy Magazine
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:17 PM
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i am not sure that you'll need a full forged rotating assembly. a cast crank with stock rods (they're forged anyway) or some similar I-beam should be fine, a forged piston would be a plus, but not entirely necessary. if you want to spin it higher than 6k a lot i'd opt for forged, aside from that hypereutectic would work. you could save money that way even though its not an issue. if money really isn't a problem i'd find a good local performance shop that can help you get situated. there are a few things with a stroker that can cause issues and the main thing is clearance of rods with the cam, block, and oil pan. I would take the block and whatever rotating assembly you choose to the shop and have them check the balance with your damper and flywheel.

they can double check all the bearings and rings and bull****. i'd have them assemble the shortblock, meanwhile you pick out everything else. no shame in that. we recently finished a street 327sbc for my father's car and it pulled 430hp on the engine dyno. the shop assembled it, I picked some key parts, they picked some others. in a case like this, i'd really opt for their experience on the nitty gritty stuff. putting the top end together is a lot easier to do.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:36 PM
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for cams, i'd pick something in the common operating range you're going to drive in. pulling big HP numbers is cool, but driving that thing at low rpm might suck. since you're going roller i'd shoot for something 230* @ .050" or smaller. LSA's around 108-110 are great performers but they'll start to sacrifice idle vacuum (i.e. power brakes lose "power"), I went with a 108, works decent enough. with a nice set of heads, aluminum jobs is what i'd go for (Dart, AFR, etc), i'd keep the runner size more modest (cnc'd 195 or 200), a smaller cam would probably be more enjoyable. torque production overall might not be different with bigger, cooler cams, but when that torque happens will be a lot different. torque band could move up a few hundred rpm and really feel like a dog down low. makes a higher HP number because the RPM value is larger, but loses idle quality and low speed manners. if you're looking for street performance i'd focus more on a nice torque value in the equation and let the horsepower fall where it may ( {Torque x RPM} / 5252 ) = HP.

I went through a bunch of crap with picking out the right parts. I chose stuff that was too big for the street and it really showed.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
If anyone else had their truck painted and crank stolen in the process?
Somehow I doubt it.
Or if anyone had jumped into someones build thread with the most irrelivant response ever?
Yep....that just happened.
The hijackers' and related off topic threads about this crank, have been moved to Off Topic, my BS meter is pegged.
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Last edited by 68NovaSS; 11-16-2013 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L_C99 View Post
Let me start off by stating that I come from the import world, I know a fair bit about fixing engines and have put a few together but am new to building them.
My uncle recruited me for a project, building a 350 for a car that he found. He said he wants about 450hp out of it, and wants it to be reliable and streetable. All I have to start with is a one piece rear, 4 bolt main 350 block factory set up for roller lifters. I am going to make this my official question thread and hopefully you guys can help me through this and we can make a sweet engine. (did I mention that money is no issue "as long as cost doesn't get insane" )
So first off I was thinking Scat 383 rotating assembly, specifically part number 1-41823BIE. Forged crank, forged 6" connecting rods, forged +5cc flat top pistons. The kit comes balanced and includes main and rod bearings, and piston rings. Any reviews on these Scat rotating assemblies? Are they good quality? How fast do you think I could spin this assembly?
Second the heads, This needs to be a street car, so 93 octane fuel. I was thinking 72cc head which would give about 10:1 comp ratio according to scat. I was thinking dart heads. Specifically the 215cc iron eagles. (Spec sheet here) Are these good heads? Should I step it up to the 230cc heads? ($60 more for the pair) The disadvantage of the 230cc heads is that they require solid lifters.
What are your opinions on iron vs aluminum heads? Its 300 more to go aluminum and I do not like the idea of dissimilar metals for the block and heads (different expansion contraction, dissimilar metals promote corrosion/electrolysis in the coolant). So What are the disadvantages of iron heads?
That is as far as I have figured so far, but I was thinking edlebrock RPM intake, 700cfm 4-barrel carb, probably HEI distributor, possibly a MSD 6A ignition module, and I'm assuming a stall converter. I don't even know where to start on the valve train, I know nothing about picking out a cam, and I can't pick the lifters or rockers till I decide on the head.

A little extra information, this will be going in a 71 Nova with a 4L60E behind it.

Looking for any help and/or advise from the experts. Like I said this will be my official question thread and I will keep it updated on how the build is going. Hopefully with your help we will be able to make a sweet engine.
Thanks!
I ordered a similar kit to yours with the only difference being pistons and you can't go wrong with that kit...as long as the kit has the rods with 7/16 capscrews you are set. Put a comp 12-433-8 cam in it and 853-16 roller lifters, and top it off with AFR 195 Eliminators and you will be able to fry tires from idle until whenever, and still have a great idle and be able to cruise wherever you want...that combo will have power from idle-6000.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
Street strip? Bigger then average budget?

383 Chevy,
*11.1:1 CR
*SRP Pro series flat top pistons*
Scat 4130 crank*
Oliver 6" rods*
UD Harold Solid roller... 255/263 @.050 .640"in/exh
*Crower HIPPO lifters
*Lunati ROller ROckers- 1.6int/1.6exh*
Pro-Filer 210s done by Chad Speier ( 2.08/1.60 "econo" ported")
*Holley 300-25 Strip Dominator intake ( gasket matched)*
Holley 850HP
*2" HVH Super Sucker spacer*

588hp at 6500
514ft/pds at 5000
93 octane
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Here's a formula for a 500/500 383.....
Chevy 383 Engine - We Build a Small-Block That Makes 500HP and 500 LB-FT - Hot Rod Magazine
A 503/517, this time built for and dyno'd by AirFlow Research....see the first combo on this page.....
Air Flow Research
See the second build here, 538/506
Small Block Chevy Engines - 400HP 383 Engine - Super Chevy Magazine
Thanks for the replies but I am really looking to do this on my own and figure it out myself. I want to learn something in the process, not just follow someone elses build part for part. I will definitely look those builds over though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS View Post


The hijackers' and related off topic threads about this crank, have been moved to Off Topic, my BS meter is pegged.
Thank you very much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhmurphy View Post
I ordered a similar kit to yours with the only difference being pistons and you can't go wrong with that kit...as long as the kit has the rods with 7/16 capscrews you are set. Put a comp 12-433-8 cam in it and 853-16 roller lifters, and top it off with AFR 195 Eliminators and you will be able to fry tires from idle until whenever, and still have a great idle and be able to cruise wherever you want...that combo will have power from idle-6000.
Thanks for the review on the kit. What size stall converter did you run with that?

I am currently doing alot of research on cams, I know what lift, duration, and lobe separation is, I just need to learn how it all works together. I see the wisdom in not going too big with the cam though.

Other than that, I am still undecided on the heads. iron vs aluminum, can anyone weigh in on that? And do you think that the 215cc iron eagles are too big for this street build? Also I don't know if I should get straight plugs or angled plugs. Which is best?
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Old 11-16-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L_C99 View Post
Thanks for the replies but I am really looking to do this on my own and figure it out myself. I want to learn something in the process, not just follow someone elses build part for part. I will definitely look those builds over though.



Thank you very much!


Thanks for the review on the kit. What size stall converter did you run with that?

I am currently doing alot of research on cams, I know what lift, duration, and lobe separation is, I just need to learn how it all works together. I see the wisdom in not going too big with the cam though.

Other than that, I am still undecided on the heads. iron vs aluminum, can anyone weigh in on that? And do you think that the 215cc iron eagles are too big for this street build? Also I don't know if I should get straight plugs or angled plugs. Which is best?
It hasn't been put in anything yet but a 3,000 stall for my engine would work good I believe...215 heads won't give you any gains until you really rev that 383 compared to a smaller 195cc runner head...with your car I really think you would be very happy with the cam I listed and aluminum AFRs...aluminum will really help the high compression bc it cools quicker than iron...you can't go wrong either way but if I start gettin over 10:1 static compression aluminum is good insurance. 1500 bucks for AFR 195 Eliminators is the way to go man...been there, done that. Get angled plugs...makes them easier to change and keeps spark plug wires away from your headers.
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:16 PM
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ANGLE PLUGS ALSO ARE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE EXHAUST VALVE,oops,,,and can generate a little more power
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:56 PM
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The AFR 195's get my vote on heads.The 215's won't give you any gains except on top end & could cost you down low.A 383 is really not designed as a high rev motor with it's long stroke.The beauty of the 383 is being able to produce torque & HP w/o having to spin to the moon to make it.You said you were using a 4L60E trans.It will need a stand alone controller to operate as well as figuring a way to mount a TPS & other outputs to operate.Since your gonna need a controller anyway,have you thought about going w/ EFI?Also the 4L60E will need upgrades as well if your goin over 350 HP/380 torque.Just so you'll know.The 4L80E would be a much better choice.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:32 PM
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So general consensus is to go with aluminum heads then. I was shooting for 10:1 comp ratio. If I go with aluminum heads could I/should I raise that a little, possibly to 11:1? Higher comp means more power so if I can get away with it why not?

Also I know this much power is pushing it with the 4l60e but my uncle already has a freshly rebuilt trans and everything to make it work, so that is what we are going with. It will be getting a few upgrades to help it cope but if it blows than so be it.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L_C99 View Post
I am currently doing alot of research on cams, I know what lift, duration, and lobe separation is, I just need to learn how it all works together.
The operating range is the place to start. If you want to tow, for instance, use an operating range from idle to 4,000 rpm's to make low-rpm power. If you want a street only motor, you might use a little more range, like 1500 to 5000. A street/strip motor might call for a range of 3000 to 6500 and a strip only motor can have whatever range you wish to build into it. Any cam you put in the motor has a range of only about 3500 rpm's where it is relatively efficient. Under that and over that, there are losses.

Secondly, think about what heads you will use. Production heads normally need a little crutching on the exhaust side, so you might be thinking of using an additional 10-12 degrees of duration on the exhaust lobes. Such a cam would be called a dual-pattern grind, because it would have one duration figure for the intake lobes and a different duration figure for the exhaust. Aftermarket heads are generally engineered to use the same duration on intake and exhaust.

Once you have landed in the general area of the cam you want to use, find the 0.050" intake valve closing point and use the KB calculator to find the dynamic compression ratio that the cam makes. Compression cannot begin in the cylinder until the intake valve closes and altering the closing point can make or break your combination. If, for instance, you have decided on a static compression ratio limit of 9.5:1 for your motor because you are using iron heads, then you want to use an intake closing point of right around 35 degrees after bottom dead center. A closing point of 30 degrees might make too much cylinder pressure for the available fuel and a closing point of 40 degrees might allow some of the mixture that has been drawn into the cylinder to be pushed back out of the cylinder and up the intake tract by the ascending piston, because the intake valve is still open slightly. I'm simply trying to help you to understand that there is an ideal closing point for whatever static compression you have decided on. This is where most rodders make their mistake. They just reach out into thin air and choose a grind without knowing the math involved and their build either detonates from excessive cylinder pressure or it is a pooch due to insufficient cylinder pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L_C99 View Post
Other than that, I am still undecided on the heads. iron vs aluminum, can anyone weigh in on that? And do you think that the 215cc iron eagles are too big for this street build? Also I don't know if I should get straight plugs or angled plugs. Which is best?
AFR 195's, hands down.

If you'd like some one-on-one help to understanding cylinder pressure and how to match a cam to the static compression ratio, just say so and I'll give you my cell number on PM.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L_C99 View Post
So general consensus is to go with aluminum heads then. I was shooting for 10:1 comp ratio. If I go with aluminum heads could I/should I raise that a little, possibly to 11:1? Higher comp means more power so if I can get away with it why not?
Any cam you bolt into the motor has an operating range of about 3500 rpm's. Yes, the motor will run under the specified operating range and above the specified operating range, but it will make the most power and be the most efficient in a range of 3500 rpm's. As you raise the static compression ratio higher and higher, you must choose a higher and higher operating range for the camshaft. That will require more gear, more torque converter and a better valvetrain. The available fuel will also play a role. The fuel you can buy at the pump today may not be available tomorrow. In 1971, I could buy Sunoco 260 at the pump, 110 octane. Two years later, I could buy only 87 octane swill and I had to wait in line to get it. Just so happens I was driving a Corvair at the time, so I got by with the pump swill. But what if I were driving an 11.0:1 motor. Game over.

Here's the bottom line: No matter what you build and how fast you are, there will always be another car that will whip your butt, so use some common sense and don't try to build a world-beater.
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