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Old 12-07-2017, 10:52 PM
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Need Help on A T Coupe Deck Lid

I am working on rebuilding my 27 T Coupe Deck Lid. I am building the inner structure and fitting it to the lid and at the same time fitting both pieces into the body to make sure everything fits harmoniously. The skin is a brand new repop Howels, and I am using the Oem Corner Braces / hinge assembly.

The Hinge / Corners were cleaned straightened. I added a 1/2" square tube between each Hinge and added some 18 ga to act as the "shelf" . I think the various photos show what I mean. The outer skin needs to be bent at a 90 and be secured to the 18 ga between the hinges. That part is the problem as the photos and my sketch show I need to make a simple 90 and then shrink right in the middle to establish that curve that matches the cabin. Because of the the curve it would look to be doable with a bead roller and tipping die, but I am reluctant to do it that way as it would require me to not only stand in front of the bead roller but to hold and feed the panel in and guide it is a bit more than I want to attempt. That might be ok for a old sheet metal hand but I am not comfortable enough yet for that.

I do have spoons available I have a Martin light dinging spoon and also a Martin I think it is a panel spoon. It is big and long and curved and heavy.

If I do this by hand how do I get the bend started and how do I keep it straight and not looking like I hit it with a 2x4 This is something I have never done and with skins so darn expensive I want this to look good the first time not the 5th time.

Look over the the photos and sketch and give me some suggestions please on how to go about this. I will eagerly await my next school lesson!!!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:12 PM
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However you tip it Rip, you will need to stretch the lip as you go. Tip it 10-15 degrees and stretch your curve. Tip another few degrees and stretch agaiin. Repeat until you have your 90* and desired curve.

Either the tipping die in your bead roller or cocking up the flat lower wheel on the english wheel is how iwould do it. In either case bend only a few degrees at a time making multiple passes.

You might make a hammer form out of a piece of hard wood, cutting the curve into a piece of hard wood but that would be pretty labor intensive.

Good lock
John
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:57 AM
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Rip, that needs shrink, not stretch... right? It is hard to see the shell flange from the edge. I truly cannot add to what John said, even though I have been doing things without a roller for a long time. In a nutshell, your only rolling alternative is forming like he said. Anything else will compromise the appearance and disappoint regardless of effort invested. Put down those spoons and think. The key here, as far as I can see, is finding an assistant for using the bead roller. Nobody can handle these big panels alone, it ain't just you!
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:36 AM
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Just curious Rip, how long have you had that Howell lid skin? David used to live a couple miles from here, last I heard (about 8 - 10 yrs ago), he gave it all up and moved to Arkansas...

Russ
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:51 AM
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Russ,

This skin was bought about a year or so ago. I haven't dealt with them since a year ago this month. The parts seem to fit ok after a little massaging. The worst part of the deal is they won't answer Emails or their phone. They won't tell you when the part is shipping. I guess what I am saying is their communications really sucks. I would call them and see what they would recommend on the skin but they won't answer their damn phone.. Some service after the sale huh?
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip VW View Post
Russ,

This skin was bought about a year or so ago. I haven't dealt with them since a year ago this month. The parts seem to fit ok after a little massaging. The worst part of the deal is they won't answer Emails or their phone. They won't tell you when the part is shipping. I guess what I am saying is their communications really sucks. I would call them and see what they would recommend on the skin but they won't answer their damn phone.. Some service after the sale huh?
Hmm, David used to have his shop in Beaumont. When I knew him, he lived next to a small tin shop in Nederland. Never knew if he sold the business or shut it down, he went through a rough divorce and moved out of state. If your parts shipped from Beaumont, he may have sold out. I don't any more than that, sorry to hear vendors being that way...

Russ
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:55 PM
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Yeah Russ, The store is in Beaumont,Tx It is a shame they are such a bunch of Knuckleheads. Complaints about them date back as far as 2010 on another site. Same thing NO communications.. I learned that if you want a part from them you call a vendor and buy your parts from them. They get to follow up for you while you set back and not stress. anyway I digress..
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:33 PM
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Ok been reading up on replacing panels and skins and I am going to be needing to do two door skins and the lower edge of the deck lid.

Now I see it would be recommended to use a rubber dolly for closing the edge of panel seams. I can understand that as you don't want to bang up the skin when you are beating the seam closed.

Now a couple of questions..

Should I be looking at a coated dolly or maybe a solid rubber heel dolly for these skins. There are so many different types but I think a heel dolly will work good. The big question is solid rubber vs rubber coated'.

The rubber coated steel dolly to me would be a better choice as the rubber coated steel dolly would have more mass and be less prone to bouncing. I dunno just trying to figure this out. I don't want to spend a mill and then not getting the right one so I keep reading

Another question is would it be advantages to pick up a skin replacement hammer. The ones I have are a pick hammer and a flat headed hammer . Oh and a shrinking hammer. Works great to texturized tin or the occasional steak!

I have a volunteer now that will help hold the deck lid so I can roll it across the top rear but it may take a week or so for him to get a chance to come over. So in the interim I am getting things ready to finish the lid and jump on the doors and re skin them.

any comments?
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:59 PM
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I'm sorry RIP but I am not going to do you much good here. I have never heard of a rubber coated dolly. Certainly have no experience with one. I don't think a rubber coated dolly would be any better than a block of wood. Maybe someone else will jump in that can help.

If you are going to have a helper, would it be feasible for him to operate the bead rooler leaving both your hands free so you can tip the flange it?

Also, did you understand Matt's and my suggestion to make a hammer form.

John
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:34 PM
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I have formed very few things over a buck or whatever you call it. Small things, never technically used that approach. But unless you want to work too hard and be lukewarm about the result, forget the alternatives and just have some practice pieces for you and the assistant to tip first. So you get on the same page, y'know?

I am equally lost on padded dollies. Wood block and light slapper to do most of the folding in 3 passes or so, then a long, flat, bare metal dolly held juuust right to back up the skinning hammer. Again, with multiple passes to sneak up on it. Be it known that us normal mortals hurt after a few dozen swings skinning a door, so take breaks and go slow and accurate. Check the other side out frequently and keep an eye on the edge so it doesn't wander. I think its worth your while to buy a typical door skin set. The like $40 HF set I use is older and is good tools but I don't know what they have now.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:23 AM
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Yeah I read the block and hammer form part and that is a possibility, although I will have a solid steel frame in the inner shell brackets and the piece that goes between them. The brackets and box tube. They will be the edge I will bend the panel to. I think I am going to roll the rear flange with the bead roller and tipping die and take Johns advice to use the tipping die and go just a few degrees at a time.

That's a good suggestion about a hardwood block and I may use a hardwood block to square the edge up against when I finish the bend. Oh yeah I was thinking in reverse about shrinking and stretching.

My favorite local strong guy is coming over and I am going to train him stand to hold the panel and make like a automated feed roller system. I will be down close and eyeball level with the dies. I will guide the part and drive it where it needs to go. I will say thank god I can slow that roller to inches per week!



The rubber dolly deal kind of crept into the conversation. It came into focus when I needed to close up the lower lip of the decklid so it would close down. I did not want to clamp down the edge I just needed to close it up some so the panel would close. So I used a standard anvil type dolly to place on the skin where I tapped the inside flange in some. When I finished I noticed some bumps in the skin along the edge. Of course these bumps matched my dolly so at some point I let an edge or two touch the panel and leave a little ding. It is not to much of a ding but it told me I had to be a lot more careful.

So I am reading this article and that article about replacing skins and found quite a few people had used a rubber dolly on the skin. That way if you slip slightly one way or another the dolly would not cause any surface defects It looked to help keep from over mashing the surface.

Next step was to see if they really existed and lo and behold they make several dollys made of rubber. Most common was a heel dolly solid rubber. So as I am wondering do they make different rubber dollies. Sure enough there are a million different tools. Heel dolly,Solid rubber,Heel dolly steel with a rubber coating. and a whole ton of other dollies either rubber or steel coated rubber.

Because I am always thinking out of the box and over thinking things I start using logic and prety soon I am in orbit and I just wanted to fill a flat tire. ha ha ha

It appears maybe this rubber stuff is over rated snake oil. I dunno not being an oficially trained body guy I look at all of the angles.

Do a google search on replacing skins on doors and such and you start seeing a trend of complaints about un-even edges and dings along the edge and in the skin from a lot of us oak tree body guys.

I have both the drivers door and passenger door to do a half skin on when I finish the deck Lid so I was just looking ahead and thought maybe this rubber dolly thing would be a good thing when I do the door skins so that is why I threw that out there. Sorry for any confusion..

Oh I do have a good panel kit except the hammer so I need to get one of those to finish up my kit.

I hope I cleared up any confusion however I am now more confused as ever.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:56 AM
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If the half door skins are on the bottom, I would be looking at learning this technique on scraps and then the doors, as I believe those edges are straight ? Seems you are taking on the most difficult compound curve panel first...
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:48 AM
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I have reached for a Durablock before, Rip. The need for the hard flat dolly is only at the very last. If a rubber coated dolly takes away some difficulty for you go for it. Theres nothing easy about doing a nice job folding an edge.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:27 AM
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T doors

My computer needs upgrades but I think this is the link to HAMB about building T and A doors
how to build a door for your 26-27 model t /28-29 a pickup

The link didn't work so try a search on google it will take you to the HAMB
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:47 PM
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Here's another option for a door skin dolly. I used to use something similar back when I worked in bodyshops. It worked well for 95% of the folding over , but I found for the last bit if fine tuning, I still needed a hard dolly.

Hot Rod Leather Door Skin Dolly - Tools, Equipment & Shop Safety
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