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Old 06-03-2010, 12:35 AM
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Newbie Painter Queston, Spraying Clearcoat Which way is Best

I made a posting the other day discussing different guns and figured out its not all about the gun.

Anyways, To make the story short,

Everybody has there own special way to spray there clear coat and i was curious in how you sprayed your clear i saw this video {below} explaining 2 different ways to lay the clear coat ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-Eua5gllWs


for examples: one way was 2 wet coats with a 3 to 5 minute flash time. Second way, was started of with a Mist coat followed by a wet coat.

is there more than 2 ways to lay on clear coat, do you have another way? which way is the best way?

i feel like 20/20.... what ever is your favorite gun to shot clear sata iwata devilbiss or whatever it is. im sure all those guns can do the same job, but i wanted to know what style of painting works best for you.

Thanks in advance

mike


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Old 06-03-2010, 01:09 AM
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" im sure all those guns can do the same job,"

Not even maybe. Sorry, but there is damn good reason why Iwata and Sata cost as much as they do. The time saved on 1 job more than pays for the gun.

Buy the best OR put it on with a roller, then sand and polish. It's your time, are you worthless? How much was that second gallon of clear you will be sanding off ? and the extra paper ? and the clean up ? and, and, and ?

"and figured out its not all about the gun."

Right, it is the hand holding the gun that makes the paint job BUT a mechanic is only as good as the tools he's using.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:18 AM
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Yes the quality of gun makes a big difference. Its the painter that makes the job, but a good gun will help the ease and likelyhood it will happen. I used cheap guns most of my life, and got pretty good results. I used to think spending 400 on a gun was crazy. Well after buying and using an iwata a few times, I see why so many were preaching buy a good gun. How much easier it made laying clear nice and wet and even, the cheap guns I used didn't hold a candle to it. With the cheapys, often had to really hog on the clear, and still often enough would have to go back and hit areas again. Laying the clear really heavy to get it to lay out right can be asking for things like solvent pop or dieback. The iwata will soon pay for itself in material savings, not to mention how much good results and the ease you can achieve them are worth.

As far as how to lay the clear, I would never spray a mist coat. I was taught a medium-wet coat for first coat (Not heavy, but still wet with good gloss), followed by two good full wet coats (Ready for another coat when clear on the paper near a panel isn't wet, but strings when you pull your finger from it). The reasoning being the first coat will give your other coats of clear something to stick to and your first coat has lessen the chance of moving the base or the first coat sliding. I feel this is a bit more important when you doing a repair, blending base and reclearing over clearcoat sanded with a finer grit, rather then going over base that the clear can bite into. That fine sanded clear can be pretty slippery if you go heavy, till you have a coat down to stick to.

Others spray all wet coats, spray em all like you want it to look, including the first.

How many coats you need really depends on the solid content of the clear and weather or not you will be cutting and buffing afterwards.

Find out what works for you, and what the manufacturer suggests in there tech sheets (you do have tech sheets for your products and are reading them-important information in them, and how to properly use the product) The manufacture just may state how they suggest applying and suggested number of coats, flash time between, ect.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldBodyman
" im sure all those guns can do the same job,"

Not even maybe. Sorry, but [B]there is damn good reason why Iwata and Sata cost as much as they do[/B].
To a point. ALOT of what you are paying for is a name too. With your reasoning, if you dont own or buy an Iwata or Sata, then you're not a painter! That is stupid. That would be the same as saying you HAVE to buy top of the line paint. There is a HUGE difference between top of the line and bottom of the line guns. I don't think he was suggesting HF guns. But i can guarantee there is NOT $300 difference between the Devilbis Plus and 3000rp. The Devilbis laid the paint down just as slick, used LESS paint and was just as fast. Just by buying a Sata or an Iwata DOESNT make you a painter. Alot of the time people buy them just to SAY "I use an Iwata or Sata."
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:56 AM
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"Just by buying a Sata or an Iwata DOESNT make you a painter. Alot of the time people buy them just to SAY "I use an Iwata or Sata."

Really? I think you are forgetting:

rule #1 : time = money, the painter is at the top of the food chain and he gets to turn and burn $*** an hour, on time , right the first time OR he's out the door.

rule #2 : the material savings make for a really nice bonus check at the end of the month.

rule #3 : you cannot prove a negative. Use an excessive amount of clear and try proving to the IRS you are NOT running cash jobs through the shop. Have fun with that one.

"To a point. ALOT of what you are paying for is a name too."

Really? Iwata's tulip pattern air cap/fluid tip is patented and the largest improvement in the field since WWII. Sorry but you're actually paying for quality not advertising fluff with Iwata.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:43 AM
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Clear Coat application

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenseth17

As far as how to lay the clear, I would never spray a mist coat. I was taught a medium-wet coat for first coat (Not heavy, but still wet with good gloss), followed by two good full wet coats (Ready for another coat when clear on the paper near a panel isn't wet, but strings when you pull your finger from it). The reasoning being the first coat will give your other coats of clear something to stick to and your first coat has lessen the chance of moving the base or the first coat sliding. I feel this is a bit more important when you doing a repair, blending base and reclearing over clearcoat sanded with a finer grit, rather then going over base that the clear can bite into. That fine sanded clear can be pretty slippery if you go heavy, till you have a coat down to stick to.

Others spray all wet coats, spray em all like you want it to look, including the first.

How many coats you need really depends on the solid content of the clear and weather or not you will be cutting and buffing afterwards.

Find out what works for you, and what the manufacturer suggests in there tech sheets (you do have tech sheets for your products and are reading them-important information in them, and how to properly use the product) The manufacture just may state how they suggest applying and suggested number of coats, flash time between, ect.

thanks kenseth17 for answering my clear coat application anybody else have other ways in how they apply there clear?

Honestly i got the money to buy a iwata , sata, or whatever gun is at the top of the food chain.

i dont think its the gun thats giving me a hard time its the lack of experience, if you have any special way that u lay on your clear please do tell unless its a skill that you keep to yourself, like being a fisherman that wont tell you there secret bait or lure?

But to be honest if 80% of painters out there were using iwata',s expect me to own one, the same goes for sata, devilbiss,c.a.technology,optima, etc.....
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:21 AM
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Ok, Kenseth17 has the right approach in my opinion for application.
I'm going to give you my old school way of clearing a car. Some may not agree, but I've painted more than I can count and used this technique even when I was painting with enamels.
I always started at the rt fender and clearing across the hood to the left fender down the left side over the quarter and decklid. I then come back and blow the roof and come down the left quarter and spray forward to the left fender.
Time is the key, not to get in too big a hurry or go too slow.
I smoked when I painted and have since gave up that habit, but I judge my dry time by a Marboro 100 LOL, about 4 to 5 minutes between coats.
hope this helps.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:30 AM
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Two things here to note.

There is no one RIGHT way to spray a clear, you need to follow the tech sheet of the clear you are using. (I'm talking first coat only)

Type of polyol used as well as polyol and solvent mixture or just the solvent mixture will dictate how the first coat should be sprayed.

For a new painter learning like you and loaded with money, I think the Iwata
LPH400 1.4 tip will be best gun #5553 1000cc Aluminum cup.

However you you want to go by your "good bodyshop painter break down", then its 70% sata 25% Iwata, just 5 years ago that was easily 90% Sata.

I think the Iwata will help you a lot more then the Sata, for ease of adjusting, run control and the tough metallic bases and on top of this you will pay less for the Iwata $400 give or take.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:13 PM
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OUch

In knowing the percentage

i currently own a iwata lph 1.3 so i guess ill keep it as a base gun

and S A T A 3 0 0 0 RP here i come for clear!

Techsheet is the cheat sheet, i will read it like a bible.

thank you everybody for the feedback...
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:33 PM
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What problem are you having with the clear? What products? That may help narrow down the problem, and can better give some suggestions of things to try.
As far as pattern around the car, I still follow the same pattern on a complete, as I was taught when I was first learning. I start spraying one half the roof to about the top of the sail panel, other half the roof to sail, and in the case of a crossflow exhaust go in the direction of the airflow (starting furthest from fan in negative pressure exhaust) quarter, decklid other quarter, back to first side door, other door, finish up with hood (so I aint stretching over really wet fenders doing the hood and then the fenders. Sometimes I will edge wheelwells and other hard areas first thing and make sure I get some good coverage on them, other times will do em as I get to em. Sometimes I will do say both the quarter and door on one side before alternating to the other side, depending on what kind of wet edge I am maintaining.

Everyone has there own pattern around a vehicle. Find what works best for you. Basically you want to find a pattern so one area isn't sitting too long till you can back to it, so you can keep a wet edge and overspray will melt in with what you previously sprayed. One reason I like to start with the roof. The one area that takes awhile for me to get back to is the roof edge, sail area, but normally this is at least a smaller area. Plus I hate roofs (always did, still kinda do) and for me its nice to get it out of the way first and also not lean over sides that I just sprayed a few seconds before I am leaning over them.
Another thing that can help, specially a beginner, with base-clear is to break up the clearing. and also help make for a cleaner job. You generally want to paint your base all at the same time (specially in the case of metallic or pearl), or at least if apart panels positioned as they sit on the car, in the same conditions. But base has a pretty decent time frame to get the first coat of clear on, that you could probably break up the amount you clear at once. This way you don't have as much to get around and keep a wet edge, and carefully remove and position removable panels so they are more comfortable to spray. Can hang hood and decklid instead of laying flat to limit the trash that lands and remove later, if your having a problem with that. Or in the case of a pain in the butt roof, paint that alone if your particular car has a break that you are able to tape off, or else do roof and quarters at the same time. I have a small garage to work in, but sometimes I'll move say the hood and decklid to a safe spot, and when clear on the body has set up enough, roll the car out and then clear the hood and decklid.
The iwata lph is awesome with clear-although I do have a 1.4 tip in mine. I know barry has said a 1.3 tip if a hyper clear can cause problems (solvent pop ect) but can't remember if included the iwata or not.

Last edited by kenseth17; 06-03-2010 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:25 PM
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nice

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenseth17
What problem are you having with the clear? What products? That may help narrow down the problem, and can better give some suggestions of things to try.
As far as pattern around the car, I still follow the same pattern on a complete, as I was taught when I was first learning. I start spraying one half the roof to about the top of the sail panel, other half the roof to sail, and in the case of a crossflow exhaust go in the direction of the airflow (starting furthest from fan in negative pressure exhaust) quarter, decklid other quarter, back to first side door, other door, finish up with hood (so I aint stretching over really wet fenders doing the hood and then the fenders. Sometimes I will edge wheelwells and other hard areas first thing and make sure I get some good coverage on them, other times will do em as I get to em. Sometimes I will do say both the quarter and door on one side before alternating to the other side, depending on what kind of wet edge I am maintaining.

Everyone has there own pattern around a vehicle. Find what works best for you. Basically you want to find a pattern so one area isn't sitting too long till you can back to it, so you can keep a wet edge and overspray will melt in with what you previously sprayed. One reason I like to start with the roof. The one area that takes awhile for me to get back to is the roof edge, sail area, but normally this is at least a smaller area. Plus I hate roofs (always did, still kinda do) and for me its nice to get it out of the way first and also not lean over sides that I just sprayed a few seconds before I am leaning over them.
Another thing that can help, specially a beginner, with base-clear is to break up the clearing. and also help make for a cleaner job. You generally want to paint your base all at the same time (specially in the case of metallic or pearl), or at least if apart panels positioned as they sit on the car, in the same conditions. But base has a pretty decent time frame to get the first coat of clear on, that you could probably break up the amount you clear at once. This way you don't have as much to get around and keep a wet edge, and carefully remove and position removable panels so they are more comfortable to spray. Can hang hood and decklid instead of laying flat to limit the trash that lands and remove later, if your having a problem with that. Or in the case of a pain in the butt roof, paint that alone if your particular car has a break that you are able to tape off, or else do roof and quarters at the same time. I have a small garage to work in, but sometimes I'll move say the hood and decklid to a safe spot, and when clear on the body has set up enough, roll the car out and then clear the hood and decklid.
The iwata lph is awesome with clear-although I do have a 1.4 tip in mine. I know barry has said a 1.3 tip if a hyper clear can cause problems (solvent pop ect) but can't remember if included the iwata or not.
kenseth, im just trying to figure what is the best clear to use, the most shiniest, glossiest, thick, wet looking clear ever. so everytime i do a personal job it looks super WET!!!!!! And i want to make sure i do a pretty damm good job. i'm glad they have forums like this without it, i would of bumped into tons problems . anyways ill have a separate post for that.

Good advise mentioning *basecoat all together* and when time to clear, piece by piece ill try that in my next job, i experienced my first solvent pop, i hope i never do it again...barry mentioned something with the 1.3 for hyper clear? what is hyper clear, clear mixed with fast reducer? u mentioned garage, home garage or shop garage?
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