Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering> Dual chamber master cylinder plumbing
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: Dual chamber master cylinder plumbing Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
06-27-2013 11:40 AM
NEW INTERIORS
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
oh, to order a new car with no abs/yawn/traction control/automatic lights/dimmers/timers/ power everything, no air bags, a normal radio without a screen bigger than most walkmen , basic heater controls,
a man pedal. and rwd a/c power d/l and windows that's it.
big brakes, big hp and nice seat
No just haft the stuff under the hood..
06-27-2013 11:28 AM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
This forum is about building cars, Not building them like they do today... As far as the newer ones I drive,, I didn't build them,, But if I did it wouldn't have haft the crap they have.
oh, to order a new car with no abs/yawn/traction control/automatic lights/dimmers/timers/ power everything, no air bags, a normal radio without a screen bigger than most walkmen , basic heater controls,
a man pedal. and rwd a/c power d/l and windows that's it.
big brakes, big hp and nice seat
06-27-2013 11:18 AM
NEW INTERIORS
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Better not drive any car built in the last 20 or so years, then...
This forum is about building cars, Not building them like they do today... As far as the newer ones I drive,, I didn't build them,, But if I did it wouldn't have haft the crap they have.
06-27-2013 11:17 AM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Better not drive any car built in the last 20 or so years, then...
TOTALLY different as the cars for the last 20 years have nanny control.. you know ABS that wont allow different wheel speeds or lock up.

and most likely why those few non abs cars are never EVER sold in the snowbelt
06-27-2013 10:35 AM
joe_padavano
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
Well I must have read something wrong then..

As far as having A brake failure and having a diagonal split system,, I wouldn't have it that way... Seems like it would be bad on a rainy day to me..
Better not drive any car built in the last 20 or so years, then...
06-27-2013 10:18 AM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
Well I must have read something wrong then..

As far as having A brake failure and having a diagonal split system,, I wouldn't have it that way... Seems like it would be bad on a rainy day to me..
pissa on snow,,
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
06-27-2013 10:02 AM
NEW INTERIORS Well I must have read something wrong then..

As far as having A brake failure and having a diagonal split system,, I wouldn't have it that way... Seems like it would be bad on a rainy day to me..
06-27-2013 09:52 AM
joe_padavano
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
Running off both front and back ports is a waste of time and money on extra brake lines... And you end up with the same thing as if you tied into the lines on one side... Both front ports are tied together and also the back... If you lose one side tied into both fronts.. You still lose both fronts..
Unfortunately, you are not grasping the concept of a diagonal split system. No one is talking about a four-port M/C. The way these systems work, one of the two pistons in the M/C supplies fluid to the right front and left rear wheels. The other piston supplies fluid to the other two. The concept is no different that a front/back split and the failure modes work the same - if you have a leak in one circuit, the the other circuit still has pressure. Is it better to have only the fronts (or backs) in a failure situation instead of a diagonal split? I can't answer that. I'll only point out that OEMs have gone this way, and they're the ones who have to worry about a lawsuit if there's an accident. My only point in my responses was to point out that there are no absolutes. A perfectly safe braking system can be built either way. From a practical standpoint, there IS less plumbing for a front/back split, which is why American automakers used it for so long. Whether "cheapest to build" is the same as "best design" is a question I'll leave to others.

You are right, however. It IS funny how some people post here.
06-27-2013 09:31 AM
NEW INTERIORS Thank You as well... The only thing I was getting at is,, I'm thinking this is going in your 57 model truck,,,If so,, I don't think you will be having the same set up as a say 2000 model truck,, When doing a older car or truck the brakes can be run a little different then the new cars of today,, No ABS, Or the other crap,, Brakes can be ran very simple and safe,, And work just as good... If you want to go by todays book's,, You will have all kind of lines ran under your hood for no better reason what so ever..
06-27-2013 09:18 AM
57DodgePU This has been a very lively and interesting conversation with tons of information. I really appreciate all of the input and helping me understand the pros / cons of my thoughts of the master cylinder plumbing.

More?
06-26-2013 08:16 PM
NEW INTERIORS Well I will say this....Not sure what you are calling wrong here,,, But it's turnning more wrong as it goes... A master Cylinder with four ports on it is to use what every side you want to.. One line goes to the front and tee's off to both wheels,,, The other port goes to the back and tee's off to both wheels...Now you should run an adjustable proportioning valve in the back line...

Running off both front and back ports is a waste of time and money on extra brake lines... And you end up with the same thing as if you tied into the lines on one side... Both front ports are tied together and also the back... If you lose one side tied into both fronts.. You still lose both fronts..

Really funny how some people post here..


Yes on a new car there is a bunch of brake lines that isn't needed... Along with a bunch of wires, A bunch of vacuum lines, And a bunch of other ******* that isn't really needed..
06-26-2013 05:43 PM
astroracer Yea, I did a bit of a knee jerk on that when I found it. I have done a lot more research and find that the Front Wheel Drive cars will generally have some type of split braking set-up. Not that they all do but I am seeing it used mostly on the FWD's. The heavier weight bias to the front makes sense to have at least one caliper working up there at all times.
I will go back to my original statement to the OP that he wants to stick with a Front/Rear system for his Rear Wheel Drive, Drum brake pick-up.
Mark

P.S. - I concider myself a little bit wiser because of this thread. Thanks OP, thanks Joe.
06-26-2013 01:04 PM
joe_padavano
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
most cars JOE says has the dual diagonal system are also almost equal weight front to rear.
A FWD 1990 Grand Am does NOT have anywhere near 50-50 weight distribution, especially with the iron V6. Saabs and Volvos, also FWD and nowhere near 50-50, have had dual diagonal braking since the 1960s.

Quote:
crack the line at the master on a car say the bigger fluid end. do you loose both fronts or one of each(1front one rear) nope you loose both fronts.
OBVIOUSLY, any vehicle with different sized M/C reservoirs does NOT have a diagonally-split braking system. I take Wikipedia with a grain of salt, since there's a lot on it that is also incorrect, like the quoted passage about American cars going to diagonal split systems in the 1970s. That is not true, and if you read my previous post, I said GM STARTED changing in the late 1980s, BEFORE ABS was common. I know from owing one that the N-body cars have them, as did the Cadillac Allantes. I also know that my 86 Caprice (designed in the mid-1970s) wagon does not, nor does my 86 Chevy one ton (designed in the EARLY 1970s). Just about every GM passenger car DESIGNED since the mid-80 does have a diagonally split system.

More to the point, while a diagonally split system may or may not be the right choice for the OP, I'm really reacting to absolute statements like this:

Quote:
Do NOT, and I repeat NOT, cross up your brake lines like you suggested.
Never say never.
06-26-2013 12:23 PM
gearheadslife crack the line at the master on a car say the bigger fluid end. do you loose both fronts or one of each(1front one rear) nope you loose both fronts.. if it was plumbed in the proportioning valve then cracking the front line on the dual master would only kill half of the braking at all 4 wheels..
and if the meteringblock/proportioning valve split the brakes front/rear one each. then you'd only need one pod master..

ABS is a whole other story. and that's not what he'd(o/p) be dealing with as abs can run as 4 separate systems if one line breaks(left rear) you'll still have brakes at the other 3 wheels on a 4 channel abs.
3 channel, the rears are tied together..
that wiki needs work from an ASA brake master tech as it's not correct at all
06-26-2013 12:18 PM
gearheadslife problems with believing that, if since 1970 the systems was split one front one rear, then the master fuild areas would be equal and they are not. and car with disc/drum the drums have half the fuild aval. than the discs..
I've lost breaks in a 1970 chevelle only had rears fronts leaked/popped
1983 s-10 lost rears only had both fronts..
1980 t/a loose rears (slowly) if you held the pedal it slowly sink and you'd have only fronts, great for burnouts.
so I'm not buy'n any of this..
went out to my 1971 truck and 86 monte SS and 84 indy and not one has a system with a split one rear&1 front tied together.
think that wiki needs work.
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.