|10-03-2019 10:23 AM|
Ah Triangulated rear suspension, I though so, my personal favorite for a solid Diffy Housing. OEM Triangulated rear suspension has the advantage of being pretty much all set up for a little more HP. Lots of options too.
There's a lot of available info on front & rear sus upgrades and bracing, even pre-fabricated kits, for this cars oem frame. Your driving habits and how this car used, street, strip or both is the major deciding factor. Me, I'd never ever Race a car like this too rare and special. However there are somewhat minor changes low to moderate $$ cost that can / will make significant safety and driving comfort and don't require massive hours to complete.
Adding bracing and mods to an OEM frame is a Cake Walk compared to fab'g a new frame. You could get some 2x4 inch @ 0.125 wall rectangular tubing from a surplus store and Fab up a rectangular frame table. A few corners braces and a center cross member, set it up on good Jack Stands Tacked in place. Then you have a working height and means to secure your frame for improvements. Beats bending over and a means to measure accurately. I've done this a few times with new but rusty surplus tubing, works well and isn't so fatiguing.
|10-03-2019 07:46 AM|
|curtis73||Yes... typical GM trailing arms with coil springs.|
|10-02-2019 04:37 PM|
That's not a bad price for a oem frame. Fish Plates can be easily added to both sides of the rear kick-up for added strength. And metal for bracing here and there is inexpensive, but requires a little careful thought. BUT, must faster and easier than a new frame.
I added Fish plates on the front overlapping the front sus cross member and past the engine side motor mounts up to the B pillar and also the Rear Kick Up in my '37 Chevy build. This was very easy, just needed many large clamps, well wore the effort.
Am I correct in thinking this year / model has a triangulated rear suspension w control arms to the Diffy ??.
|10-02-2019 04:02 PM|
|10-02-2019 03:58 PM|
You guys are full of good advice.
I'm currently chatting with Schwartz about non-Brembo/Wilwood options. Initial discussions have been positive... that is to say, with careful ball joint/front arm choices, they can get nearly any knuckle I want in there. I do get the feeling however that I'm ordering an F1 chassis and then putting street parts on it.
I can find good, rot-free frames for $500-750 on the used market. Careful inspection of mine shows that it has a large rust hole at the driver's side rear kickup that was repaired with some steel treadplate. It looks strong-ish, but the 270k-mile frame plus rust plus 40-year old ragtop body is just floppy.
So maybe I do a mix of suggestions? I'm not happy about a $10k expense for a frame, nor do I think I have the skills to fab a complete frame myself. I think I DO have the skills to modify a stock frame, but I would need some significant education. Michael, I'll be PMing you.
Looking at the track width for C4s, it looks like they might be a bit wide for my LeMans unless I keep the high-positive offset wheels which I'm not keen on, but I'll research it a bit more.
Seriously, if I can buy a good frame, jig it up, and weld in stiffening and a C4 front cross, that might be the way to go here.
|10-01-2019 05:13 AM|
My father has a 65 skylark convertible frame off the chassis. One of those back burner projects.
I dont know if it was boxed from the factory or not. But this one is and is more then strong enough. Brakes and suspension upgrades are things you can fabricate mounts for later. Fix the frame.
In a driver I perfer drums easy to run, service, and cheap. But I also drive old cars/trucks like a old car/truck. I dont use the brakes much in a cruiser. But I do try to leave enough room(usually by passing) to stop in what I know it takes (usually 150-200ft).
Fix your frame, get the body on, electrical, drivetrain, interior, etc. It is a long and costly list as it is. Finish it.
Once the thing is driving down the road you can decide if the suspension and brakes are adequate or need to be upgraded.
Dont let a upgrade be the projects wall that stop the build for years.
|09-30-2019 07:21 PM|
Had to say ,, not having seen the condition of your frame and suspension.
But, if you can dish up the 10k$ for a new frame and your a little hesitant and never completed a full frame build, might be a good idea,,, if you can't fix your frame or find a good used frame, DO IT.
As My Dad always told me and my friends,, The most important single area in any car frame is the front suspension, the rear is an easier choice. Most will never or can tell the difference between a custom frame and a good OEM frame in a Street Rod for a driver., it's really about whats up front for good comfortable and safe driving.
I tell my friends to either get a easily repairable frame or buy one if they don't have the experience and tools. I've assisted with long time friends in building frames and a whole long list of mods and suspensions swaps. But this is best learned along a long path of hands-on experience.
I have the advance of being a retired Engineer with years of this sort of Fabrication. And my Dad and a few family members who where also Engineers with their Street Rods. Growing up in and under Street Rods build by Engineers make a large difference in my thinking process. My Dad's driver was a '55 Poncho Safari Wagon and Mom's a '55 Olds 98. He build many Street Rods, was a passion. He drilled int o my head, do the research and do it once, correctly.
In my current build I was able to borrow a friends four rail frame table and then another friends car rotisserie. A frame table is mandatory most of the time, even a simple four beam box framework made from 2x4 steel would a blessing. Fabrication of a custom frame is not a few months of part time work, it is a true challenge. My current '37 Chevy Coupe build is a frame up with a full roll cage for safety and just because, but the body is a Carbon Fiber body and these don't come with any inner structures nor plans. So let me tell you that the frame was fairly simple, not my first. But the planning for everything else needed to bolt in suspension, running gear, steering and what makes a car was a huge challenge. And that's about what anyone's very first frame fab would feel like.
The main concern of mine with any custom frame anyone purchases from a builder are the "Got Ya's" The other area of parts that are needed to make a Rolling Chassis,,, suspension components for one.!! There are lots of frame fab shops, some better than others. But if their front suspension, for example, Brake options are often limited to the Big Companies, the buyer best have deep pockets.
I like the C4 Corvette suspension because the custom front cross members can be purchased at a very reasonable cost and pretty simple to weld onto frame rails. And that's what I did.. The C4 suspension has many strong points, great IFS anti dive during hard braking . But the biggie is you can easily bolt on C5 / C6 front caliper front calipers @ $250. Wilwood has their 1.25 thick performance rotors that are slotted and dimpled for $100 each. Try to find such large dual piston calipers anyplace else for $250 a pair. Great for DIY builders
One of the things that I like about AME, is they do utilize the Vette parts. The C5 / C6 Corvette IFS, a great low cost suspension. and low cost ancillary parts, Rack, calipers, coil overs or air bags.
And any frame maker can supply a 9 inch housing, so there no worry there with high price additioal high $$ components. And many makers of the 3rd members with a large host of gear ratios, and other options. I'm using a Dutchman's IRS aluminum housing with a 9 inch 3rd member. It was a PITA to Fab all the parts for the rest of the IRS, but I was set on an IRS setup.
My point is that here are many options, So try this,,,
Select a few frame suppliers and price out their base frame and with suspension, have them email you a complete build sheet and the cost.
Then complete a list of ALL the parts and pieces needed to make a full DONE rolling chassis. Now you can compare.
If need more help, send me a PM and we can exchange info. Happy to assist..
|09-30-2019 05:44 PM|
You might just surprise you’re self with a little effort.
You can always plead insanity if it doesn’t go well.
|09-30-2019 03:54 PM|
The real draw to something like a Schwartz frame is that it (at least claims) 100+ lbs lighter, 200% stiffer, and requires zero body mods. (unless you want to tub it to fit 345mm.) I guess it's a question of whether or not I'd rather open the wallet and capitalize on someone else's engineering, or if I want to take a $500 chance on trying it myself.
|09-27-2019 06:24 PM|
FWIW department I build my own frame for the '39. No blueprints were available so I plumpbobbed the outline to the ground and made a set of drawings. Got two sticks of 2" X 4" 11 gauge and went at it. Turns out the frame was very easy to build and would recommend it to anyone who can fab. The finished product will not be as nice as a mandrel bent $10K frame but for under $500 and tucked up under the car it works just fine.
|09-27-2019 01:04 PM|
If your frame is reparable, I can tell you from experience it will probably be less expensive and less labor to repair it and bracing. But, it'd really nice to work with an all new frame and set up everything without any mods to a frame.
AME (Art Morrison Enterprises in Fife WA) will Fab a perimeter frame or frame rails. They have quite a large selection.
I sent a CAD drawing to Brock @ Art Morrison Enterprises in Fife WA and they bent my Frame Rails for my '37 Chevy Coupe build to our Spec, was less than $1K with extra tubing sections. I chose C4 Corvette IFS and got my front cross member from Don @ Flat Out Engineering in Orange CA. The rear suspension uses the C4 Spindles and Dutchman's 9 inch IRS Center Section.
I have some experience with the Corvette C4 IFS & IRS, and I had a bunch of the components on hand. AME also bent my Roll Cage pieces. All where just about as perfect as can be had. Making the Frame Extension for the Body mounts was relatively simple.
As shown in the photos the frame rails are a work of art. We TIG welded on a frame table loaned to me by a friend.
IF your a DIY Guy and can at least tack weld, TIG Pro's can be found that will weld on location.
|09-27-2019 11:25 AM|
|09-27-2019 10:40 AM|
I passed the thread title over because I do body work at a shop that puts various aftermarket frames under various bodies. Finally read it though, and I think I may have something to add without anyone yelling advertising.
First off, be it known that few whiz-bang new frames "bolt up". Bodywork required. That being said, the fact that you have a 67 LeMans convertible made me think...
A job came through a few years back which is pretty much your exact scenario. Last time I knew, and I don't know the current owners, they were calling it the Sugar Shack GTO (a 65 convertible) and it was every bit of a quarter million dollar build if not more, but we were the shop who finished it, and it came to us with a frame which might interest you already under it. I have plenty of pics, but the idea seed may be all you need.
They took what I would call the stock torque box corners... basically just the curved kickup areas, and built onto those. Seems like an easy way to go about what you're after. You can fix and reinforce the reused sections to the moon if you like but they keep the stock dimensions in place and you are free to graft on what you wish.
Of course, this puts your car down the whole time. Unless you can find a suitable donor frame. Since you have read through the whole disclaimer part now ha ha, I will see about digging up some images. I think there was quite a bit of overkill on it but am no chassis designer. Stand by for a couple inspo pix.
|09-27-2019 09:12 AM|
|curtis73||Welll… I have the welder and I can build a jig with some wood, but I can't duplicate mandrel bends and the R&D that goes into an aftermarket frame. I also have a one-car garage full of motorcycle and tractor. Suffice it to say, it's worth $5k or so to upgrade instead of starting from scratch.|
|09-26-2019 05:36 PM|
|techinspector1||Well then, I would just build a jig and make the damned thing myself. It's just tubing, welding wire/gas and labor. And you have a pattern to start your jig with........|
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