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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-18-2018 05:58 PM
39 master
Alternative to lizard skin

I put the treated metal in a vice and heat the uncoated side with my heat gun. I measure the temp on the other side with the laser thermometer. As soon as the metal starts to heat up the laser thermometer goes nuts and climbs over 200 degrees even when the base metal is only 95 degrees. I've had different readings with the thermometer on reflective surfaces such as chrome but only by about 10-15 degrees. I would think the paint would cover the spheres but I guess it doesn't.
03-18-2018 05:48 PM
ericnova72 '39 Master,
Are you measuring the temp on the opposite side of the steel sheet from the side that is coated?? You want to measure heat pass-thru, not surface temp on the side you are heating.

If you are heating the coated side and shooting the coated side with a laser thermo gun you will get a false reading, one of those laser gun quirks due to reflectivity.
03-18-2018 05:10 PM
39 master
Alternative to lizard skin

Well, two days ago I mixed some spheres into an oil based paint and brushed some on a piece of 18 ga. Today I hit it with the heat shrink gun and checked the temp. As soon as it started to heat up the temp climbed rapidly to 225 degrees. So, I know the strange reaction is not due to the latex but must have something to do with the spheres. I'm unable to tell if the mixture has any insulating qualities or not because of this reaction. Would like to try the same thing with the real Lizard Skin.
03-16-2018 05:38 PM
hduff
Quote:
Originally Posted by 39 master View Post
As soon as heat is applied the temp reading
(false) zooms on the Latex side. Going to try a different binder. Mixed up some oil base with the spheres and will try that when it drys.

You should be using a high-solids latex paint such as ceiling paint. Mix one quart of glass beads per 4 quarts of paint. Apply the paint the thickness of a credit card.
03-16-2018 02:04 PM
327amc I think the main use of such a coating, was/is for sound deadening. Not thermal barrier iirc.
03-16-2018 12:37 PM
39 master
Alternative to lizard skin

Adding to this thread I did a test today. On a piece of 18 g steel (about firewall thickness) I stuck a strip of Cool Mat which is a foam with aluminum on both sides and mixed up some Latex and glass spheres. I put several coats of the latex mixture on and let it dry over night. Using a non-contact thermometer and a heat shrink gun I tested the insulation qualities of each, side by side. What a surprise! Metal at 90 degrees, cool mat at 76 degrees and the latex at...get this...174 degrees. Can't be! Used a different non-contact gun and the temp read the same. How can this be? As soon as heat is applied the temp reading (false) zooms on the Latex side. Going to try a different binder. Mixed up some oil base with the spheres and will try that when it drys.
05-18-2017 06:00 AM
Jeff Farmer I was also looking for alt for lizard skin. Good thing this thread has lots of info. Thanks guys!

************************************************** *********8
05-04-2017 11:17 AM
backsplatter
Quote:
Originally Posted by hduff View Post
"Resin Polymer" would be pigment. With water = 40-50%, that would be a high solids latex paint, like ceiling paint.

"Trade Secret Insulation Media" is likely the glass microspheres. The mix ratio is one quart microspheres to 4 quarts paint, so microspheres = 20%

"extender pigment" added in order to modify the flow (viscosity). Lizard Skin i highly viscous. Aluminium silicate is widely used as a filler in paints and likely accounts for the sound deadening quality.

So, it looks like Lizard Skin is a high-solids latex paint with glass microspheres and aluminum silicate to thicken and provide the sound deadening.
From some web searches

Carbon Black 1333-86-4 5-10%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_black
Carbon black is mainly used as a reinforcing filler in tires and other rubber products. In plastics, paints, and inks carbon black is used as a color pigment.

Extender Pigment 1317-65-3 1-5%
from Handbook of fillers, extenders, and diluents
https://books.google.com/books?id=C4...7-65-3&f=false
it's calcium carbonate
05-04-2017 07:51 AM
hduff
Quote:
Originally Posted by backsplatter View Post
Safety Data Sheet
For
Mascoat LizardSkin - Ceramic


http://www.lizardskin.com/assets/fil...I-6-1-2015.pdf

Chemical Name/CAS No. Amount
Water 7732-18-5 40-50%
Resin Polymer 00-00-00 20-30%
Trade Secret Insulation Media 10-20%
Carbon Black 1333-86-4 5-10%
Extender Pigment 1317-65-3 1-5%
"Resin Polymer" would be pigment. With water = 40-50%, that would be a high solids latex paint, like ceiling paint.

"Trade Secret Insulation Media" is likely the glass microspheres. The mix ratio is one quart microspheres to 4 quarts paint, so microspheres = 20%

"extender pigment" added in order to modify the flow (viscosity). Lizard Skin i highly viscous. Aluminium silicate is widely used as a filler in paints and likely accounts for the sound deadening quality.

So, it looks like Lizard Skin is a high-solids latex paint with glass microspheres and aluminum silicate to thicken and provide the sound deadening.
05-04-2017 06:30 AM
backsplatter
Quote:
Originally Posted by hduff View Post
No updates. It really needs to be summarized and added to the wiki.

All I would like to know is if anybody used Lizard Skin and got the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) and could post the contents information from it. That could settle several several questions.

Sometimes it's interesting what you can learn. For example, the expensive thinner sold by POR-15 is nothing more than mineral spirits which is cheap by the gallon at a local big-box, hardware or paint store.
Safety Data Sheet
For
Mascoat LizardSkin - Ceramic


http://www.lizardskin.com/assets/fil...I-6-1-2015.pdf

Chemical Name/CAS No. Amount
Water 7732-18-5 40-50%
Resin Polymer 00-00-00 20-30%
Trade Secret Insulation Media 10-20%
Carbon Black 1333-86-4 5-10%
Extender Pigment 1317-65-3 1-5%
03-20-2017 09:37 AM
Richard D I made some up this weekend, i put an open flame to it and noticed a 60 degree difference!
03-16-2017 10:28 AM
Richard D I got some microballons last night, I want to do a test tonight, can you give me a rough idea of what worked? We are pressure washing the bottom of the 'Vette (fiberglass floors) this weekend, I want to paint the undercarriage before installing the engine. I'd like to read all of this, but I am in a time crunch. I will post my results.
03-13-2017 12:05 PM
hduff No updates. It really needs to be summarized and added to the wiki.

All I would like to know is if anybody used Lizard Skin and got the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) and could post the contents information from it. That could settle several several questions.

Sometimes it's interesting what you can learn. For example, the expensive thinner sold by POR-15 is nothing more than mineral spirits which is cheap by the gallon at a local big-box, hardware or paint store.
03-13-2017 11:58 AM
Richard D It's been a couple years, any updates to this?
09-05-2014 07:47 PM
PapaG Some people were questioning the aluminum reflecting part being on the top of the p&s product. Here in the south where it gets very hot in the summer we have been using a radiant heat barring. It is a type "insulation" that reflects up to 95% from a heat source. Lots of brands, Big on home-green radio stations.
Radiant Barrier & Bubble Foil Insulation | Innovative Insulation Inc.

Lowes and HD should carry something like this.

My thoughts on this would be put this down first using what ever glue product seems to best way to you. Then use whatever you would be next, P&S, DM, KEEP cool, etc.It Should work any where. Used on Motor homes. Then go next with which of these products that you believe is the best product you think is best. Also how many of the those other insulating- nose blocking product you like.


Note I am not trying to change any ones mind on what they want to use.

DanTwoLakes makes some good points as some others others do.. I happen to agree that most of these companies make two products, one for sound and another one for heat. LS does and so does DM. I am not going back to check all the links on everything talked about. In reading through several threads on here and at least to on the HAMB. No one discussed the radiant barrier products. Rave reviews on home sites. Makes sense to me.
I do know some one who has used it is his house, big difference. He can even get in his Attic.You can walk up there in the dead zone in summer in South Texas.

I am going to do this in winter on my house.... My attic is a death zone now.

Just my two cents... HTH
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