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Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine> Fresh Valve Job, now engine won't turn! What the heck?
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-09-2011 03:28 PM
jsm1847
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Factory Man
I guess my suggestion to do a voltage drop test on the cranking circuit was ignored! This could have been fixed a long time ago! Some people like the school of hard knocks though which involves learning the hard and expensive way!
I appreciate your help Factory Man, however your advice was not ignored. First off, I am pretty new at this and dont know how to do a voltage drop test. Second, I don't have the correct meter to do such a test. Third and lastly, I haven't got around to work on the Ol' Stang yet. I've had a busy week!
So I don't really like the school of hard knocks, which is why I am seeking all of "hotrodders" knowledge! I do thank you for your advice though!
John
04-09-2011 08:18 AM
adantessr
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
There's your problem. Be sure the battery is good and is still charged.
Many years ago my neighbor called me over and said his engine wouldn't crank over . I watched under the hood while he turned the key and had to laugh out loud when I saw sparks flying between the water pump and engine block on his Dodge slant six. Moved the ground cable from the water pump to the block ....problem solved.
04-08-2011 09:56 PM
brianis i had the same trouble exactly heads redone whole nine took the starter in had them test tested good but when they test it its not under a load and not trying to turn the flywheel parts store said pay for a new starter take it home try it without beating it up if it doesnt solve the problem bring it back money back whole nine figure 40- 50 bucks for a starter why not turned out it was the starter
04-08-2011 05:57 PM
The Factory Man I guess my suggestion to do a voltage drop test on the cranking circuit was ignored! This could have been fixed a long time ago! Some people like the school of hard knocks though which involves learning the hard and expensive way!
04-08-2011 04:09 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm1847
I did remove a ground that was on the head, and relocated it to a body panel.
There's your problem. Be sure the battery is good and is still charged.
04-08-2011 04:03 PM
dsraven
ground cable

was that a large guage ground cable that you attached to the fender? possible connected directly to the battery negative terminal? if it came directly from the battery and was of any significant size, then it was probably your engine ground cable. without that the starter has to find a ground through an engine mount or something else, which means a whole lot of voltage drop. so the stater may have got enough ground circuit to spin the engine with no plugs, but as soon as the plugs went in there was too much draw for the grounds you had available. so it turned slower. stick that ground cable back on the cylinder head or block, and retry. betcha it goes better then. make sure you clean off a spot on the engine down to the bare shiny metal and also clean the terminal on the cable. then bolt it all up and give'er a shot.
keep us posted
dsraven
04-08-2011 01:17 PM
jsm1847 Thanks Bogie. I really dont know this stuff. I guess it comes with experience, which I am gaining! I will hook this stuff up and see what happens.
04-08-2011 01:11 PM
BogiesAnnex1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm1847
Thanks for the reply all!
Let me give some more info. I dont think it is the timing because it was in time before valve job, and the distrubutor is stuck in place!!! So it didnt move! HA HA.
I did remove a ground that was on the head, and relocated it to a body panel. That is the first thing I will try and remedy. After that I will get back with all and give an update! Thanks again!
There should be at lest two grounds on the engine:

1) The battery's ground terminal should be cabled directly to the engine. This carries the very high amperage of the starter directly back to the battery. The wire gauge of this ground should be at least the same as the positive cable to the starter and solenoid.

2) An equal to the engine ground to a little smaller wire gauge cable should connect the chassis to the engine. This provides a connection back to the battery via the engine for the much smaller amperage's found in the chassis utility power of lighting, heater, stereo, etc.

All of these connections need to be kept clean, free of dirt and corrosion as possible.

Bogie
04-08-2011 12:58 PM
jsm1847 Thanks for the reply all!
Let me give some more info. I dont think it is the timing because it was in time before valve job, and the distrubutor is stuck in place!!! So it didnt move! HA HA.
I did remove a ground that was on the head, and relocated it to a body panel. That is the first thing I will try and remedy. After that I will get back with all and give an update! Thanks again!
04-08-2011 12:04 PM
dsraven -make sure to ground the coil wire so it is not as hard on the ignition system and less chance of something going wrong, (like a fire). if it cranks good with plugs in but no speak, wahlaaah, timing issue. set the static timing and make sure the firing order is good and try it again with the spark connected. remember if you were cranking without spark you may have fouled up the cylinders with fuel, so try it without the choke first.
-to set static timing, get the #1 piston (some intakes are labelled so you know which one is #1) up on top dead centre at the end of the compression stroke, you may have to remove a valve cover to make sure both the valves for #1 are closed, or use a compression gage or whatever. then when it is at top dead centre, take the ditributor cap off and line up the rotor with the #1 spark plug wire tower connection on the distributor cap. just turn the distributor till it is all good. you may want to check the crank timing pointer to see where it all lines up down there , but when at tdc the pointer should line up with "0". then put it all back together and try to start. once started you may have to play with the timing to get it to run decent, then when it is warmed up adjust the timing to the correct spec.
dsraven
04-08-2011 10:29 AM
schovil69
Quote:
Originally Posted by adantessr
X2. Quick check would be to take the coil wire off and see if it cranks okay.

Good idea! Be certain to leave the plugs in for this test so you are only eliminating the spark. If it cranks okay with the plugs in and the ignition disabled, it's definitely timing.
04-07-2011 04:02 PM
adantessr
Quote:
Originally Posted by schovil69
My money is on the timing being too advanced.
X2. Quick check would be to take the coil wire off and see if it cranks okay.
04-07-2011 01:01 PM
schovil69 My money is on the timing being too advanced.
04-07-2011 12:59 PM
dsraven
no start

when you had the battery and starter checked, did they do a load test on the battery, load at 50% of the cca rating for 15 sec, if volts go below 9.6 then the batt is toast.
I would do a check on the timing setting, or just try retarding the distributor some and see if it fires. the timing for initial start up is a guess anyway, and should be final set on an engine at operating temp with a timing light, after the carb etc have all been adjusted.
if your heads were done at a reputable shop, the valve height should be ok. if it was overlooked the valve would be protruding too far out of the head and would cause the valve to be open if anything, which would mean less compression. grinding the valve seats causes the valve to sit deeper into the head, so stick out the back side more, so cause tight valve clearance. a new valve job shouldn't give you any more compression than what that engine had when it was brand new. that starter worked then, and has been checked as ok, so what else changed.
check this stuff:
- battery connections. not just the terminals, check the wire as well. sometimes they are green down inside the wire. usually can tell that because the wire is quite stiff next to the terminal and then down a way it gets more flexible. it will pass enough power to crank the engine over without the plugs but maybe not enough for when the plugs are in.
-cable connections at the starter solenoid and at the starter. you can do a voltage drop test to make sure. if it is a stock style starter with no solenoid attached, just a cable from the fender mounted solenoid, take the cover off the side of the starter and make sure that the contact under there is in good shape. when those starters get power, first the bendix is slung out into the flywheel teeth and then that set of contacts connects and sends battery power through to the starter motor, so the stater doesn't grind it's way into the flywheel teeth every time. I have had engines do what yours is doing and that was the problem.
-cable connections at the ground connection to the engine block. not on a painted surface, clean and tight. wouldn't hurt to take it off, clean with sandpaper or something to get down to shiny bare metal, put a star washer under the cable end just to make sure all is good. some guys will then paint it so it doesn't corrode, or oil/grease it.
-double check the static timing, make sure the centrifugal/vacuum advance mechanisms in the ditributor are working properly while you are there.
-make sure you have the right spark plugs. check the reach (length) against the plugs that came out. possibly the wrong plugs, which would mean they hit the pistons. I have seen that before. usually the ground electrode is bent though.
keep us posted
dsraven
04-07-2011 12:30 PM
lmsport Was the battery ground attached to the head? Check the voltage drop from the engine to the batt.
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