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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-05-2018 01:51 PM
Schroeder I have weld beads all over the floor in this car that pretty well so suck. They're tough, but they're not dressewd properly and look like crap. The floor was painted in rust bullet and then painted on top of that with a cheap epoxy primer. On top of the welds I put seam sealer. The joints are all good...it's just those darn looks.

I ripped the fatmat sound deadener material out because it smelled when the car got running and heated it up to the point where I think it stuck on our clothes and because I wanted to make these welds look good. Now that I'm about ready to do it I. Thinking there is no point and it's only to satisfy myself in my head. I'm just gonna waste tons of time and money on abrasives. What would you guys do?

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04-14-2018 05:00 PM
Schroeder Tear down on the PS full rocker started today. Got the outer off. Now I have to drill spot welds out of the inner flange that's still connected to the floor pan, grind welds, and pry the thing off.

Hopefully this side goes without incident, and I don't have to bother you guys so much this time around. Maybe I'll be a little better and a little quicker at it this time. Praying and keeping my fingers crossed that that's the case anyway!


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04-13-2018 04:00 AM
123pugsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I think this is a really good idea. Am I off base? .
You're only off if you didn't check how the door fits before jigging it up.

Also, from the flat part of the sill where your jig is to the edge under the door may be slightly different on the replacement rocker panel. Check it.

That's all I got.
04-12-2018 09:31 PM
OneMoreTime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I think this is related to my original topic.

Would it be smart to install my cage in the body when I get the rockers complete? I would only do the main hoop, halo, and door bars. I would weld in the down bars that go into the trunk when I set the car on the ground with the rear end in. At this time I would also install the bars that go through the firewall that bolt up to the bars that go down and attach to the subframe by the core support. Basically, right now only do components that are isolated to the body. There is an ease of access factor right now since I can pull the roof.


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Remove the top to put the cage in..
That is what we did back in the day with the race cars but then they only had to look good from 50 feet.

Sam
04-12-2018 07:57 PM
idrivejunk I think its only me and you here.

Thats all good as long as the body had proper dimensions when you started building the jig. I would want to establish a good center line and take an insanely lot of comparative measurements side-to-side. Thats about all you can do.
04-12-2018 06:15 PM
Schroeder I started welding my "jig" in the car. Vertical location bars are in. There is a bit of side to side adjustment in these too because I'm hugging the channel's edge, but really the floor pan flange is my side to side location as I see it. This is more of a secondary check.

I'll do something similar to this for the front to rear location coming off the rear frame frame an locating the rear end of the rocker. I think this is a really good idea. Am I off base? Seems to take away a lot of the need for very careful measurements.

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04-09-2018 06:46 PM
Schroeder ROUND 2- PS side

As probably most everyone who will see this knows, I am starting the full rocker on the PS. I had an idea shortly we got done with all the back and forth on my roof and what to do next yesterday...

On the DS I could have done a better job measuring where the stock full rocker was located. This time I thought I could make a "jig" off my car to locate the replacement unit right into place. I thought I could take a piece of angle iron, lay in on top of the factory rocker (where the door normally sits), tack weld some pieces to my subframe connectors, and then to those pieces weld some angle iron bars that reach over to the piece of angle laying on the factory rocker. This locates me vertically.

Now underneath the car I'll weld something coming off the rear frame rails to locate front to back. On the forward end of the rocker panel I might try this too, but it may have to be more for.reference I don't want to trap the new panel in and just cause issues for myself.

I might also try to tack some bars in place that tell me where to go with the new piece up high in the cowl area.

This will get me right where the factory piece was. SPOT ON. From there I can make minor adjustments that may become evident, but I suspect they'll be very minor. This seems like a genius idea! What do you think? Anyone do this?

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08-15-2017 06:18 PM
idrivejunk Sounds logical. All I can offer is that if you plan to use the car at a track, even if only testing not racing, it might be a good idea to consult that place's rule book and be sure to meet those specs or the guidelines set forth by the national association associated with that kind of track. Like SCCA or NHRA or whatever floats your boat.
08-14-2017 08:27 PM
Schroeder
Panel and structural panel replacement on 77 firebird trans am

I think this is related to my original topic.

Would it be smart to install my cage in the body when I get the rockers complete? I would only do the main hoop, halo, and door bars. I would weld in the down bars that go into the trunk when I set the car on the ground with the rear end in. At this time I would also install the bars that go through the firewall that bolt up to the bars that go down and attach to the subframe by the core support. Basically, right now only do components that are isolated to the body. There is an ease of access factor right now since I can pull the roof.


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08-13-2017 08:06 AM
123pugsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Great posts guys. Thank you. IDJ, I've have had it told to me that one shouldn't let the acid dry, but I've also had it told to me that it doesn't matter if the acid is reactivated and thoroughly sanded off.

Pugsy, I really like the acid "locator" mindset!! That's great. I've never seen it mentioned in such a way over on the SPI forums. I'm quite new there though, and I probably missed it. There's a bunch of great knowledge there too.

Pugsy, let me make sure I understand your method up until the point of getting the 80 grit DA sander out.

1. Wash panel with acid.

2. Let panel dry.

3. Re-activiate acid by applying more acid and rinse with water.

4. Allow panel to dry

5. Wire brush panel until dust is not flying.

6. Repeat steps 1 thru 5 until acid application yields NO black spots.

7. Wire wheel last coat of acid off the panel.


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Exactly!...
08-13-2017 06:45 AM
Schroeder Great posts guys. Thank you. IDJ, I've have had it told to me that one shouldn't let the acid dry, but I've also had it told to me that it doesn't matter if the acid is reactivated and thoroughly sanded off.

Pugsy, I really like the acid "locator" mindset!! That's great. I've never seen it mentioned in such a way over on the SPI forums. I'm quite new there though, and I probably missed it. There's a bunch of great knowledge there too.

Pugsy, let me make sure I understand your method up until the point of getting the 80 grit DA sander out.

1. Wash panel with acid.

2. Let panel dry.

3. Re-activiate acid by applying more acid and rinse with water.

4. Allow panel to dry

5. Wire brush panel until dust is not flying.

6. Repeat steps 1 thru 5 until acid application yields NO black spots.

7. Wire wheel last coat of acid off the panel.


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08-12-2017 04:11 AM
123pugsy Just remember one thing.

Wire wheel the whole panel before scuffing.
If you see dust flying, that is dry acid residue.
You will not get it all off by rinsing.
The wire brush will get into most of the pits as well.

My screw up:
A couple of pics below.
Here is what I found under my nice bubbled up paint job.
I probably believed what I read about the rust "conversion".
I now use the acid as a rust "locator" as it turns it black.
Wire wheeling and spot blasting took care of this. I kept applying acid until it didn't turn black anymore.
08-11-2017 08:16 PM
idrivejunk If I gather correctly, the idea is to never let the acid dry. Still learning, but practice is leaning me toward not letting it dry. It only acts on a very thin film of rust. I have come to think of it as a detergent for scrubbing pits. Wire brush works like nothing else for that.

Pugsy and John have been at the rust game a long time and I have only been dealing with it for a few years. I asked about the plates in the vid because I didn't know if maybe there was a part one of the vid about the examples. One day I want to get my hands on the SPI epoxy, I can see its different from the rest.

Hope you don't mind this eye bleach picture because yeah even I don't know whats up with that door in the last one. We do fix a lot of messes. What I have been trying to say about the moldings is that GM cared more about molding alignment than panel gaps. Assembly manuals give moldings priority over panel gaps in some cases. If you line up the doors of a 70-81 F body according to what it looks like without both of those moldings in place, you will have a wide top rear gap to fight plus it will look wrong first time you shut it with trim in place. That is experience talking. A wise man might also fit doors with the new door weatherstrips in place at the very least. Having the latches, roof rail channel (probably what you meant earlier) and drip rail and weatherstrips and moveable glass would be smart and that is also experience saying that. I have put a few cars together, and doors on this grey car was one. I'm never trying to make it difficult, I just know that you are working on an important area of your car. It doesn't have to be like the rest, which may have been rushed.
08-11-2017 06:45 PM
Schroeder IDJ, hahah. I'm assuming he isn't done fitting his door.


John long, so you recommend the method of spraying on the acid, wiping off the access, allowing to dry, re-activiating by spraying on more acid, rinsing thia coat off with water, and then sanding I'm assuming. I have no problem doing that. Its a couple extra steps that could save me a lot of time, heart ache, and money.

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08-11-2017 06:53 AM
John long
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Pugsy, I've seen that video. It's where I decided that I only needed to sand the ospho off instead of rinse with water and then sand. He has the same good results on the one he rinsed as compared to the one he just sanded. I don't like the idea of pouring water on the panel after treating it for rust. You just won't sell me on that. It's counter productive.

I like the idea of spot blasting. I think this cowl has enough ridges to be strong enough to resist warpage. I should have just got a new panel. They're $140. I'm gonna have all this time and effort into it. I'm just doing all this for practice though I suppose.


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You might want to reconsider that statement, Pugsy has forgotten more than some of us know. You can not sand acid out of rust pits. It needs to be rinsed off WHILE IT IS STILL WET and primed with epoxy asap. Pugsy is not trying to sell you on anything but only keep you from making a mistake.

Any remaining acid on the panel will prevent the epoxy from curing and it will not have adhesion. The video was new metal and it was possible to sand it pretty effectively.

John
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