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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-18-2018 05:50 PM
ToddMcF2002 Electrician project is looking very pricey and I need to get started. I’ve got a 5000 watt generator rated for 41.6 Amps at 120 volts. That should be more than enough for a 120 volt welder drawing 20 Amps max? The receptacles are rated at 20 Amps each
03-29-2018 07:09 PM
OneMoreTime I have a 100 foot 10/3 cord and it works fine with my small welder. All I can say about this subject..

Sam
03-29-2018 06:56 PM
st3gamefarm At 100 feet of 10awg, voltage drop will be about 4 volts at 20 amp draw.
8awg, would drop about 2.5 volts at 100ft, and 20 amp draw.
The voltage drop is the same whether 120v or 240v.

So first thing to do is figure out exactly what the voltage at your outlet is. It could be as low as 110, or as high as 130 RMS. (RMS or Root Mean Square voltage is what you will read on a voltmeter) Then find out exactly what voltage your welder runs on, (should be on the data tag) probably 117, or 120. Then, determine whether there will be enough voltage at the end of 100 feet to power it. A 6awg wire has a drop of about a volt, and would most likely work just fine for about anything that runs on 120.
03-29-2018 12:52 PM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
I never suggested to the OP to use those 13 amp and 10 amp cords, I just showed those for YOUR info... and mentioned them to the OP as an example of amperage of lighter duty wires...

Most ranch houses with power coming into a box at one end of the house and the garage on the other end of the house prolly already have 100' of #12 wire going to the garage outlets...

Again from what you claim to be an "Engineer" WHY would you suggest using too anyone for that matter a smaller 13 amp or even 10 amp cord for anybody wanting or even getting 15 amps to a distance of 100' away from a given source. Do yourself and others a favor and re think any solutions you give to someone and keep in mind you did say you are or were a engineer right!
I am not trying to put you down just want to show others when you suggested the 10 and 13 amp cords usages it didn't fit in this Thread as the OP said that there was a 100' distance to be considered that's all.
03-29-2018 12:29 PM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Hi I'm trying to find out if I need to put in a dedicated circuit to run a 100' 10 gauge extension cord. I actually have 220 available and I'm wondering if I can simply run off of that with an adapter and not worry about voltage drops? Or should I put in a 110 with a 35A breaker? Thanks.
Todd, I think if I have understood (re read every thing) this hole question and what you have already re wired (Dryer plug) to its new location in the garage right this is what I think will work for you with out cutting the driveway concrete. Keeping in mind your House Main Panel is in the Garage or at least accessible for the job to work for you.

Here we go.
If you can re run the old dryer wire (30 amps, 10 gauge, 10/3 wire) to a new location j-box somewhere that you don't have to cut the driveway concrete and you have a clear path under your grass idea and stay under the 100' you will have two 15 amp circuits in the end results in the shed and that should be good for what you want. All under ground wires need to be in Electrical PVC conduit being a complete enclosed chase way from Garage j-box to the shed j-box. j-box = junction box.
Keeping in mind that you stay with the 10 gauge wire all the way from House Main Panel to the shed. If this works for you change out the Original 30 amp double/two pole breaker to two single pole 15 amp breakers and wire your shed as you like.
If all the above works for you but you get Nervous about the initial 100" run ( if it is 100") then change out the original 10 gauge dryer wire to a 8/3 wire all the way from House Main Panel to the sheds j-box and down size the wire to 12 gauge or even 14 gauge wire to all of the plugs you want.
All the above has been considered as you have stated the Welder wont even draw 15 amps.
03-28-2018 08:56 PM
BuzzLOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjgord51 View Post
My bad for the (never seen) part, should have said/read (never used). This is what happens when staying up all night and being awake for 24 hours straight. Don't know why anybody would suggest using that small of cord to someone for getting power for a 100' run and from someone that's an Engineer from this and that company that's just dumb.
I never suggested to the OP to use those 13 amp and 10 amp cords, I just showed those for YOUR info... and mentioned them to the OP as an example of amperage of lighter duty wires...

Most ranch houses with power coming into a box at one end of the house and the garage on the other end of the house prolly already have 100' of #12 wire going to the garage outlets...
03-28-2018 06:56 PM
timothale
twist lock pieces

I have found that commercial twist lock cords with 20 amp ends last a lot longer. I have a few 6 outlet spider construction boxes with 50 amp hart plugs for in and out. I have a few short adaptors that go from 110v twist to household straight blade w grd. I have found more problems with house hold connection cords. you can buy 110v 20 amp commercial recepticals. They have a t slot and last longer.
03-28-2018 12:54 PM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
we should all bow to mjgord51 for his infinite wisdom and pointing out his 25 years as a union electrician and knowledge of ca code many times

and not answering the op's question or helping in anyway

yes we should all have a big panel in our shops, that wasn't the question
All I was doing was pointing out what others gave for incorrect input in this matter of long distance runs of 100' and the use of an extension cord may it be 10,13,15,20 or even 30 amp cords. Information is what the OP was asking about and if you were paying attention that's what some was doing, As for your first paragraph above statement "quote" ( 25 years as a union electrician) Nowhere did I state I was an Union Electrician JUST that I had 25 years under my belt! If you are going to through Mud then you need to have the Right ammunition first.
I think I gave the right Math answers for him to figure out his distance problem. Wow 114 times typing "Blah Blah Blah"ect ect Hummmmmmmmm, you must be putting from left field. Sorry if Clarification puts salt in the wound. Every thing I gave or posted was for the OP to get his problem salved was my only intentions.
03-28-2018 12:29 PM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
Now you've seen a 13 amp extension cord...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-6-ft...2601/100672784

The Dollar Stores sell them for a dollar, also...

And a 10 amp one...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-100-...-525/100650619

After 50 years of a GM/GTE electrical engineer, and 60+ years of an electrical hobbyist, I've about seen it all...
.

My bad for the (never seen) part, should have said/read (never used). This is what happens when staying up all night and being awake for 24 hours straight. Don't know why anybody would suggest using that small of cord to someone for getting power for a 100' run and from someone that's an Engineer from this and that company that's just dumb. The idea is to help him not to burn up his tools. I think my input and suggestions will give him something to work with. Your quote if I may use it "I've about seen it all" there's more than one way to skin a cat, yep!
03-28-2018 11:54 AM
ogre
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjgord51 View Post
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
we should all bow to mjgord51 for his infinite wisdom and pointing out his 25 years as a union electrician and knowledge of ca code many times

and not answering the op's question or helping in anyway

yes we should all have a big panel in our shops, that wasn't the question
03-28-2018 11:53 AM
BuzzLOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjgord51 View Post
Never seen a 13 amp extension cord in my 25+ yrs as a Journeyman Electrician
Now you've seen a 13 amp extension cord...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-6-ft...2601/100672784

The Dollar Stores sell them for a dollar, also...

And a 10 amp one...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-100-...-525/100650619

After 50 years of a GM/GTE electrical engineer, and 60+ years of an electrical hobbyist, I've about seen it all...
.
03-28-2018 07:30 AM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
Is the shed closer to the house box or the garage box?

Cheap household 120 v. plugs and outlets(50 cents) are 15 amp with #16 - #14 cord wires... (#16 - #18 x 13 amp extension cords available for about $1 and up)

Commercial duty 120v. plugs and outlets are 20 amp... they look about the same, but the 20 amp are made a little better and usually cost more... and the cords are usually #12 wire... They are often also used in the kitchen and garage and outdoor outlets.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-100-12-...-/391894906431

Wire one end direct to a 20 amp breaker/neutral bar/box ground... a 20 amp outlet/box on the other end
First of all a plugs can be 15-60 amps for household uses and a outlet can be a plug or a switch but most of all its a point on the wiring system at which Current is taken to supply utilization equipment (Plugs, Switches, GFIC Receptacles, Hearer Switches) pretty much any thing you can install in a electrical wall box.
Never seen a 13 amp extension cord in my 25+ yrs as a Journeyman Electrician but who knows what other states have.
Commercial duty 120v plugs and outlets are not limited just to 20amps, can go all the way up to 50 amps. Yes 20 amp plugs and switchs are a heaver built piece. They are required in kitchens, breakfast nooks, laundry rooms, bath rooms, garages, pool areas as well as any dedicated circuits. As for outdoor uses only not true any 15 or 20 amp plug can be used.
03-28-2018 06:37 AM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
code requires 24 inches deep, there are exception for being in rigid conduit or under concrete
garage panel run from house panel is considered a sub panel, it needs 4 wires: 2 hots, neutral and ground
that said get a ditcher that goes 3 feet or more, water line at the bottom, power line above it
every garage needs water

Direct Burial wire is 24 inch. Nonmetallic Raceways PVC is 18 inches per calif. NEC book...
03-28-2018 06:09 AM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
So I decided to call Hobart to get their take and maybe this will help somebody. He told me that the distance run starts at the breaker. I can get 25 feet closer to the shed and avoid cutting the driveway pavement by running 6 gauge off a 50A breaker on the main panel to a remote panel on the other side of the garage. Off the remote panel I would have a few 20A dedicated outlets. From there I can use a 50' 10 gauge extension cord with 15A ends safely. The Hobart 140 won't draw even 15A continuous doing tack welds on 19 gauge steel.

A slight variation to this plan would be to go underground from the remote panel and wire the shed properly. That is far more feasible from a remote panel because its under grass not the paved driveway.

Meant to add: he said a 75-100' pure extension cord run would really need 8 gauge to avoid voltage drops but for my use case it was a pretty marginal requirement vs. 10 gauge.

Hobart is wrong by stating 75-100' really needs a 8 gauge cord (BS) on his part. 8 gauge wire is rated for 40-55 amps pertaining to temperatures

In Calif. the NEC code book (National Electrical Code) states voltage drop starts at 100 feet and beyond with ANY size gauge of wire used.

50 foot to 75 foot extension cords @ 15 amps are fine.
75 foot to 100 foot extension cords @ 20 amps are fine.
100 foot extension cords and beyond is recommended to use 10 gauge wire.
All the above cord lengths suggestions would be for One (1) single tool usage.
03-28-2018 05:37 AM
mjgord51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I'll take a look at powering the shed but I'd still like to consider an extension cord to keep the costs down. How critical is the 15A issue with the ends on a 10A wire? Most have those ends. This is for ~19 gauge welding on my 57.
First of all nothing wrong with 15 amp plugs on a 10 gauge wire ( you said 10A wire) I took that for a typo! You really need to see what your welder needs for Amperage 15 or 20 will dictate your wire size needed.

FIRST THINGS FIRST, get all the specs (input amps for the welder) from the welder you want to use and go from there. A comes before B and C comes after B and so on...
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