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Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior> Dynacorn roof skin on 77 Firebird Trans Am
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-10-2019 03:57 PM
idrivejunk Lower door shell patches are available. I have never used Ospho.

Proofreading before posting is your friend, or it should be. I know you use talk-to-text tech so I can usually decipher your intent but man there were several wrong but similar words used in your last post. Just saying ... Don't rush too much.
05-10-2019 02:26 PM
Schroeder when I patch the bottom of this door skin I imagine there will be some underlying structure that should probably be brushed off and treated so it doesn't become a source of rest in the future. It will probably have at least surface rust on it. I'll wire wheel it down, but then what should I do? Is there a product you guys like to spray on? Does Russ converters are kind of cheesy aren't they? Is this where I do a code of ospho, let it dry, wire wheel at all, and keep repeating until no black is brought out from the ospho? Do I just wire wheel it off really good and coat it with weld through primer?

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05-10-2019 08:13 AM
Schroeder Ah, yes. Forgot. The door I'm looking at still has sound deadener stuck to it, so I can't see that right now. Forgot about the crumple beam.

I'll take a look at fitting the spare doors on and repairing the bottom flange of the skin.

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05-10-2019 07:02 AM
idrivejunk If you look inside any door, you'll see a massive intrusion beam down the middle. You can't do anything but bondo up the line unless you skin the door.
05-10-2019 04:50 AM
Schroeder Issue of the day: I'm doing to test fit of the body panels on my car. I want to make sure that I have the full rockers set in place correctly before I go fully weld them and have a whole mess on my hands and have to do everything again. Right now the front fender is out further than it used to be to be able to line up with the door which seems odd. I don't know how the rocker could be out any further than it was since it had to be budded up against the floor pan's flange. this may be a function of the new cow panel not being screwed down entirely and the fender nut on its top surface is a little bit more inboard on the car rather than the fender being more outboard. putting the nose on should reveal what's going on I would think. If the fender is out further there will be too much of a gap to span between the passenger side fender and the driver side fender. If things fit up nicely up front, I think that means that the top fender mount on the cow is just sitting a little bit too far inboard right now. I had to enlarge the holes on the fender quite a bit to be able to use the body mounts and scoot it over outboard, and that's what's got me thinking about all this.

That's not even why I'm here though. I'm here in regards to the body line going down the middle of the car particularly on the driver side. it appears that the previous owner knocked mine down too far. The line on the quarter is visibly sharper when you scrutinize it. It's not that hard to see. I took a profile gauge and put it on the quarter body line. I then tried to line this profile up with the line on the door. There is an air gap between the peak on the door and the peak in the profile gauge that corresponds to the peak from the quarter body line

I've read a lot of stuff about blocking a sharp lines down to be a little bit more flat and rounder for these firebird body lines, but I can't find anything about making it sharper and building it up.

The Gap between the peak on the door and the peak in the profile gauge was probably about 3/16" - 1/4". Do I just need to get another door to keep this simple, or is this something that I should try to hammer out a little bit further with a pic hammer?

I have a couple more doors that I took the profile gauge to. I took the profile of the quarter line from my car and matched it up to the line on the spare doors. The match was much better. It was much closer to the lines on my 70 firebird too. That tells me that the lines on the spare doors are good! However There are a couple dance that need repaired and a little bit of rest on the bottom. one area of concern on one of these spare doors is the bottom of the skin. There are a couple inches where the skin will need rust repaired right at its flange. I will need to cut out the door skin probably about an inch up onto the panel, install a patch, and bend its flange over the door frame structure. This probably isn't that big of a deal but it will be hard to get a dolly behind the welds for metal finishing on the door skin.

I'm still assessing the situation. What would you guys do?

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04-01-2019 10:03 AM
OneMoreTime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipster_G View Post
Basically you feather the glass back something like 3-4 times the depth. Create a supporting backer/mold and the first piece of glass barely covers the gap with each successive layer slightly larger then the last but still in the crevice and continue until you have the hole filled. Crude picture but it gives the idea. I usually go on the backside and put an additional piece the covers the spread depending on if there is room enough to do it. All these glass parts need work. Just keep in mind resin without glass has no strength so avoid an overly wet layup.
Yes how its done...repaired a number of boats that way an when done is s good as new.. I use 36 grit in a roloc to feather the glass and give it plenty of tooth for the new glass. you want to strive toget a high glass to resin ratio..

Sam
03-31-2019 11:26 PM
Hipster_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
If I do have to remove a little over half inch from each side do I butt the cut pieces up together and span fiberglass across the cut on the inside of the bumper and then just fill the outside face with fiberglass Bondo?


Cutting this in multiple pieces and then spanning the cuts with fiberglass sheets to splice it back together on one side sounds like it'll make this piece quite a bit weaker. What's the favored method?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Basically you feather the glass back something like 3-4 times the depth. Create a supporting backer/mold and the first piece of glass barely covers the gap with each successive layer slightly larger then the last but still in the crevice and continue until you have the hole filled. Crude picture but it gives the idea. I usually go on the backside and put an additional piece the covers the spread depending on if there is room enough to do it. All these glass parts need work. Just keep in mind resin without glass has no strength so avoid an overly wet layup.
03-31-2019 02:28 PM
idrivejunk Par for the course, like golf. Having to cut and splice fiberglass because its a mile from fitting is not unusual, just unfortunate. If these aftermarket pieces were made to original equipment standards, no one would buy them. So, manufacturers do as best they can. Hand-laid fiberglass is simply a much more approximate science than methods that might fit better. Whether what you have is defective, below the manufacturer's own standard, is only for them to say. Its a "for the price... this will have to work" deal.

Technical assistance on fiberglass is not something I am comfortable giving. Others here are quite knowledgeable but whether they read this is anyone's guess.

If your car was a coil spring design I would be less emphatic about supporting it with axle and springs in place. As it is, us guys don't really know how you can tell if any part of the car is in correct relation to the others because reference points lost validity when cutting began. So theres really no need to ask, you have taken that upon yourself long ago.
03-31-2019 01:52 PM
Schroeder If I do have to remove a little over half inch from each side do I butt the cut pieces up together and span fiberglass across the cut on the inside of the bumper and then just fill the outside face with fiberglass Bondo?


Cutting this in multiple pieces and then spanning the cuts with fiberglass sheets to splice it back together on one side sounds like it'll make this piece quite a bit weaker. What's the favored method?

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03-31-2019 01:47 PM
Schroeder
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
The fiberglass thing seriously sounds par, fussing about it won't do any good. Thats just how it is.

My stance on supporting the vehicle was previously stated and hasn't changed. Its a leaf spring car, a good place to get bit and you'll have enough trouble without borrowing any.

Practicing flaring the old quarters sounds like a better idea. Doing so on a junkyard fender or something sounds best, to me with all things considered.
Forgive my ignorance. Sounds par? You mean that this is normal? How do I address this? it looks to me like I have to cut a sliver out of each side. I can't cut one sliver out of the center because there are features around the license plate cut out that will come in too. Addressing this large discrepancy will require two cuts from under the tail lights on each side.

I don't remember what you said about quarter replacement. I'll do some thread searching.

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03-31-2019 12:56 PM
idrivejunk The fiberglass thing seriously sounds par, fussing about it won't do any good. Thats just how it is.

My stance on supporting the vehicle was previously stated and hasn't changed. Its a leaf spring car, a good place to get bit and you'll have enough trouble without borrowing any.

Practicing flaring the old quarters sounds like a better idea. Doing so on a junkyard fender or something sounds best, to me with all things considered.
03-31-2019 10:37 AM
Schroeder I'm putting up the rear end of the car. I have the tail lights installed and the bumper. I want to put my stinger fiberglass bumper cover on and it's 1 1/8" too long! I know people said to be wear fiberglass, but I read good things about stinger and decided to try my luck. I'm going to take some pictures and contact them tomorrow, but I wanted your guyses opinion too. I don't really like the urethane bumper covers because they crack and sag. I'm sure that'll happen again. I was willing to work on the edges of the fiberglass piece, but this is extreme. This is going to be remanufacture. What is your opinion?

Also, should this car be on its wheels to replace the quarters? Does it really matter so long as the new one goes on when the car is in the same state as when the old one comes off? as in if I take a quarter off when the car is off the ground the new one has to go on on the corners off the ground. If I take the quarter off when the car is on the ground that is when the new quarter has to go on. Is this right? This is my next item that I am preparing for.

I'm also contemplating what I should do about the large fender flares that I'm going to have to make. I was going to do a practice run on these quarters that I'm going to be tearing off because it will be very difficult metal work for me. now I'm leaning towards just doing it on the new quarters though because even if I do get it right on this first trial run it may just all be luck. That's a heck of a lot of work to go through twice.

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03-13-2019 12:11 PM
68riv I have use 3M NVH foam before with good results.
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-...4-p-16562.aspx
03-12-2019 07:53 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
nobody in any shop I worked at use the foam for door skins, it causes problems and outties. It sure is designed for it but it doesn't work very well. You're talking something that rapidly expands as it hits the air. Never had a problem with a 1k seam sealer and neither has any of the master techs I've worked with. I also leave the foam on the beam and dab 1k sealer, but not globs.

AHHHHHHHH,That is a whole different story! That IS what I do unless the foam has been distroyed. The way you said it before was the foam wasn't there and you replaced it with seam sealer! But leaving the foam there and putting a tat of seam sealer on top it is a whole different thing!

Yes, that's what us "master techs" do.

Brian
03-12-2019 07:12 AM
tech69
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
I have never seen an issue with the foam, its designed to do just that, support it a little but still have "give." Personally when doing door skins I don't remove the foam, I cut it off with a razor, then remove the skin and then I do put a dab of urethane seam sealer over that foam to bond it back to the new skin. But it's not attached to the beam as that could very easily cause a problem. With everything we know after doing it for years can the urethane work, yep, but just one mistake, one thing, and you have "ghost dents" on the panel because of it.

I have never ever seen an issue with the foam.

Brian
nobody in any shop I worked at use the foam for door skins, it causes problems and outties. It sure is designed for it but it doesn't work very well. You're talking something that rapidly expands as it hits the air. Never had a problem with a 1k seam sealer and neither has any of the master techs I've worked with. I also leave the foam on the beam and dab 1k sealer, but not globs.
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