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53 Belair conv rust repair

1M views 6K replies 111 participants last post by  Eduramac 
#1 ·
I just brought home a 1953 Chevy convertible Monday that is 100% there. 100% there except for the bottom 6 inches that is. I have always built rusty cars no one else wanted but have tried to do a quality job of repairing them on a budget.

The key wordhere is budget. I admit to being frugal but friends all say I am cheap. Whatever, for me to be able to enjoy this hobby I must be able to build the car and have my money invested, not just spent

The cost of replacement floor pans, floor braces, inner rockers, outer rockers, lower quarter panels, tow boards, trunk pan, rear pan extension, tail pan, and rear splash apron is well over 3000 dollars. That is money that will buy front suspension, rear axle, and good buildable engine. Maybe even a complete parts car.

I have basic sheet metal tools but nothing exotic. Small 3' brake, Shrinker/stretcher jaws, home made slip roll, and a home made english wheel and 110v mig welder.

My purpose here is to show the new hot rodder who is apprehensive about what he can do what is possible with a little time and patience and not much money.

Below is the patient. She has stage four cancer but we are going to try to save her. If we don't who will? :mwink:








So far I have stripped the inside, removed the front fenders and adjusted the doors. If the body shifts or moves during the build process I want to know it before everything gets welded together. Frequently checking door gaps will let me make sure it has not moved.




Tomorrow I plan to cut the toe boards loose from the front floor brace and expose the brace. The first job will be to remove the brace and reproduce it.

I hope you guys follow along and feel free to comment share thoughts, opinions, etc.

 
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#4,205 ·
Thanks for that info guys, now I am thinking maybe stay with my 30 in roll. now and get or build (I like build ) an Ewheel instead of a larger roll. Frugalness comes in to mind here.

Pugs your question about having an Ewheel, No I don't have a Ewheel but I have always wanted to learn the technique. I like to make things and now your guys talk about how I could have made the job easier with an E wheel. I think I would be better off with an Ewheel and it takes up less space than a huge Slip roll.

The curve we are talking about in the inner shell is now 99% complete and turned out much better that I thought it would. I still need to trim the back and attach it to the rear brace but it is a simple task.

I still should roll a couple of beads in it for strength but I am thinking I could make the fit worse from panel distortion.. Any thoughts guys.

Making that last sharp curve in the panel was a real challenge! I finally accomplished it by forming the panel curve by hand over a 6 inch plastic sewer pipe (clean of course) and some off dolly beating! It was hard and at times frustrating but I did persevere. as I said I just need to trim off the excess and get the metal screwed to the framework along the back. If I can just get some warmer weather I will be ready to shoot the inside of everything with some SPI Black then rivet and weld the rest.

I am going to look into an Ewheel maybe another tool build in the future..:cool:
 
#4,215 ·
The firewall is sanded and ready to paint except for some detail work and adding lower spring mounts for the hood. I custom made new body mounts for the car but did not include the spring mounts.



They were a part of the old mounts so I cut them off the parts car and adapted them to fit Precious. They are fitted, sandblasted and primed with weld through primer but I did not get them welded today as planned. Just ran put of day and energy.

John





I came up to let the weld through primer dry for 30 minutes but ran out of enough spizeringtom to go back down and get the job done.

 
#4,218 ·
One other thing I did today was take a series of pictures while I welded up the split in the rocker where I corrected the missmatch in the width of the EMS rocker and quarter panel patches.

This was just a good oportunity to show the method of welding a patch by stacking the spot welds. This is also an easier method when you have a really wide gap to fill.

Would it have been better to cut this out and put in a patch with closer gaps? Probably, but I didn't. I did not want to screw up the paint on the back side of the inner rocker so I just "had at it". The split is also in a spot that I can get to inside the quarter to seal it.

Here is the cut that needed to be fixed.



I started by making tacks every inch or so. It takes a little practice to tack accross a large gap but the EMS is a fairly heavy gauge and I could put my little Mig on it's third hottest setting and just hit it for a half second building the "bridge" with about 4 quick zaps.

Once I had the bridge tacks in, I just built onto each of them slowly. I would zap 3-4 places and the go grind on my spring brackets for a few minutes and let the welds cool.

45 minutes later I was to this point.



The thing I like about doing it this way is when you finish and tie each group of welds together you only have 6-7 welds trying to pull the panel instead of 40 of them. If you keep skipping around you end up with 40 tacks and 40 gaps. (How poetic):D

My repair may not the kind you go around bragging about but it is a good solid repair that will give service. I thought maybe some of the less experienced guys who check in with this thread might like to see the process and hear why I do my but welds this way.

John

 
#4,219 ·
One other thing I did today was take a series of pictures while I welded up the split in the rocker where I corrected the missmatch in the width of the EMS rocker and quarter panel patches.

This was just a good oportunity to show the method of welding a patch by stacking the spot welds. This is also an easier method when you have a really wide gap to fill.


I started by making tacks every inch or so. It takes a little practice to tack accross a large gap but the EMS is a fairly heavy gauge and I could put my little Mig on it's third hottest setting and just hit it for a half second building the "bridge" with about 4 quick zaps.

Once I had the bridge tacks in, I just built onto each of them slowly. I would zap 3-4 places and the go grind on my spring brackets for a few minutes and let the welds cool.


The thing I like about doing it this way is when you finish and tie each group of welds together you only have 6-7 welds trying to pull the panel instead of 40 of them. If you keep skipping around you end up with 40 tacks and 40 gaps. (How poetic):D

My repair may not the kind you go around bragging about but it is a good solid repair that will give service. I thought maybe some of the less experienced guys who check in with this thread might like to see the process and hear why I do my but welds this way.
No planishing on this one, or just relying on metal thickness & low heat build-up to keep things straight?
 
#4,222 ·
Dan, the TIG is a great way to weld sheet metal , but......... It really demands very clean metal or your tungsten will not last any time. It also needs an excellent fit up. Gaps can be welded but you will end up generating so much heat, it will defeat the purpose of using the TIG in the first place. Also, since it requires both hands and a good deal of coordination you have to be able to get in a comfortable position where you can also see what you are doing well. Lastly, it is very time consuming.

I can stumble along with the TIG but I have not become an expert by any means. I am so used to the MIG, I just automatically reach for it.

John
 
#4,227 ·
Thanks David. I would say it is a bit redder than the old laquer red oxide but it does remind you of it, for sure.

LOL, I was certainly not suggesting it did not need filler. Only that I had not used any yet. It definitely needs it. I think I can run an 11 inch booster on the left side and I am going to put the battery on the right side firewall (I think) so it is not going to show like a completely empty smooth panel.

It has to be slick enough for it to be kept clean though. There is nothing worse than a rough poorly finished panel that can not be cleaned and/or waxed.

John
 
#4,234 ·
I have heard that arguement made and I am sure people do it, but it is not what SPI or PPG either one recomend in their tech sheets. Both recommend sanding and recoating after 7 days. The reason, as I understand it, is because the epoxy looses it's ability to chemicaly bond after it has cured for 7 days.

Would it be OK to scuff with some coarse paper, like 180 and apply filler? That would be a good question for Barry.

John
 
#4,235 ·
I would scuff with 80 grit.

It was my understanding, a scuff and bondo apply was fine. Should stick just like applying to bare metal which we know works extremely well.

Let us know what Barry recommends.
There is no way I will ever have patience enough to work in a 7 day window.
 
#4,236 ·
"The epoxy does not need to be sanded before applying body filler (up to 7 days)."

That just means sand before filler if past a week. Sure, scuff with 180 if it is. No need to reapply. If you do reapply, keep "If time allows, its always best to apply filler over epoxy after it has set for 24-48 hours." in mind.

Reapplication doesn't only have to do with being open to non-sanding application of the next layer of material. It is mentioned, in PPG's case, to assure that at least a certain thickness of epoxy (required so the product can perform as intended) remains on the panel. When used properly, scuff sanding can leave less primer than that. Since SPI is an epoxy primer-surfacer, 3 coats is probably plenty of material left after a 180 scuff. Do that and keep rocking. What you did is like putting on an extra coat of clear because sanding it flat is anticipated. If you have big sand-thrus, a shot of epoxy there might be wise.

My .02. Lookin good, John :)
 
#4,238 · (Edited)
I just hung up from Barry. He did not disagree with what you guys are saying but did suggest that it was a gray area that could depend on several different variables. Cleanliness, prep of cured epoxy, time involved, etc.

The bottom line was to make sure it was hand sanded well with at least 180 grit and watch very carefully how the filler feathers into the epoxy. If there is any sign that the filler is not feathering in smoothly, re-coat with epoxy. If you can get the filler on within the recoat window, you have both a chemical and mechanical bond. If you sand and re-coat beyond that time, you are relying on a mechanical bond only.

I have to admit, talking to him did take a little pressure off me on this firewall area. He is a remarkable guy.

John
 
#4,239 ·
Cleanliness, prep of cured epoxy, time involved, etc.
If you can get the filler on within the recoat window, you have both a chemical and mechanical bond. If you sand and re-coat beyond that time, you are relying on a mechanical bond only.
John
And a mechanical bond is ALL every body person relied on since the inception of Bondo.
How many of your past restorations are still around with 20 year old paint and filler that isn't falling off and you applied that filler to bare metal ?? You KNOW how to prep and clean a surface before applying a filler. The only thing new here is the theory of 2 chemical agents being able to bond if put in contact in a certain time period. Is that better than the old way ?? most likely but it certainly hasn't become the "only" way to do it now.
I'm with ya on wanting this to turn out as the best restoration you've ever done, but I feel like you are stressing yourself out over a job you already know how to do, and do very well...:D
Carry on with whichever route you decide to take.
 
#4,240 ·
I never wiped over unsanded anything myself. I believe the only benefit in doing so is being able to apply only the minimum number of coats of epoxy recommended for best product performance, resulting in a material cost reduction vs applying more so the film can be sanded and remain thick enough.
 
#4,242 ·
The only part I can't figure out is how come a fellow like yourself ain't complaining about sanding at all. I suspect you either retired from being the sandman, or have an arrangement with him where you get to sleep in a chair in the basement while he throws sand at whatever you want sanded.
 
#4,246 ·
Ahhhh, that's music to my ears! Let me know when I can bring the Chevelle out to your place. You can get into the therapeutic zone and block sand until the whole car is bare steel. I think that would be great practice for you before you get serious working on Precious, lol.[emoji2]

Dave

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
#4,245 · (Edited)
Let me add one more thing about a chemical bond. When it comes to rust pits that cant be sanded properly that chemical bond (The stupid window thing) sure comes in handy so if you have the pits epoxy them and fill them within the window ,EZ sand works great on pitts but good fillers can used too if they're wiped clean and theres not too much excess filler left on then sand with 180. its the best way to take care of those nasty pits. Theres other instances where normal sanding isn't possible so that window does come in handy sometimes.
Keep in mind, a chemical bond is what the factory relies on and weve all seen those white cars with the paint peeling off and the green epoxy showing haven't we. THATS a chemical bond that's failed.
 
#4,254 ·
Uh John they have cup liners now so you don't have to marry it first.:evil:
This line of equipment hygiene discussion brings to mind a potentially entertaining statistical curiosity...:confused:

In American history, I wonder how many cases of defloration have involved a '53 BelAir convertible.:eek:

Now, how many in Cuba? Which is more? :mwink::D

Mitch did you call Gary yet?:thumbup:

John, you might have wet noodle arms like Olive Oyl by time to draw your shiny gun.:sweat:
 
#4,261 ·
John, keep an eye peeled for my friends Joe in the fresh red '60 Biscayne, Gary in the yellow / gold Mustang, Jerry in the red /white 69 Camaro, and Alvin in the orange Roadrunner. :mwink:
I screen printed this so I can call them by name. :)

John, I'll be nowhere near you sitting on my green John Deere mower.

BB :thumbup::thumbup:
My green John Deere is a 1977 with an old cast iron Kohler motor. It doesn't know it is supposed to wear out.

John
 
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