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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-04-2018 11:55 AM
Hipster_G Hacks are everywhere. They come into the shop work 2-3 months until their jobs start coming back and jump ship leaving the other tech's to deal with the mess.
11-04-2018 09:04 AM
tech69 neighborhood has nothing to do with it. I'm measuring it by the accolades they receive in the hot rod community. I recently turned down a job that is the best in Northern California in terms of the awards they get but the money just wasn't there. Sure would have been fun tig welding but my experiences in other top restoration shops kept me away. The money is not in restoration, but it sure is a lot funner and less stressful. I'm currently dealing with a manager and this idiot that shadows him all day to micromanage everything to death. Everyone is judged by numbers but the numbers have not gone up since he's been here. He's fukkin clueless! You can't even have a conversation with the manager without this snake trying to listen in, and this guy is always up to something and changes are weekly. It's super annoying
11-04-2018 08:55 AM
MARTINSR Henry, I am sorry I worded that the way I did where you would see something different than I said. I simply said that it cracks me up that there are shops that WOULD do hack work while doing insurance work. And YES there are shops out there doing insurance work, who aren't direct repair shops, they get what ever comes in the door and they lie about what they do and don't have trained techs and proper equipment and do hack work.

Getting back to what you said, you are VERY RIGHT, the high end collision shops with direct repair contracts with insurance companies are often doing some high end work indeed, they have to, or they will loose those direct repairs contracts that are often worth millions of dollars a year in sales. So yes, they have the best equipment, the best training, and even outside companies like Verifacts who come in randomly to survey their work procedures so the shop can hand the insurance companies the reports showing that the work is being done properly and cars are being repaired properly returning them to manufacturers specifications in regards to safety.

I know all this, and told you this years ago when you used to refer to me as a lowly collision tech. But now you are there and see things differently, nice to hear.

I don't know of the shops you were working in with poor quality humans there, the restoration shops I have worked in or with (sending work their way we shouldn't do) are super high quality people who do high quality work so I don't know about the particular shops or neighborhood you worked in. But like any artist, often the artist doesn't get paid the same but is doing amazing art to perfection. I know I certainly respected you when you were doing it.

Brian
11-04-2018 07:41 AM
tech69
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
What cracks me up about the hack shops that do insurance work and cut it short, you can make money doing it right!

Brian
I will tell you straight up, the best techs ARE at the shops doing the insurance work cause that's where the money is at. In any other trade the best workers are ALWAYS where the money is at. You really think auto body is different? We're talking the difference between making 30k and 100k. Where do you think the best techs are gonna be? At a shop that bounces low checks or a shop that direct deposits high dollar checks, gives his family insurance, and puts into his retirement? Anyone can do the work, not everyone can do it efficiently and seamlessly. THAT is the difference. I've worked at some of the best restoration shops in Northern Cali and the meth heads and hacks are mostly in restoration, not in high volume production. At the end of the day, money talks and the rest is just blah blah blah
11-03-2018 04:14 PM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipster_G View Post
LOL, I could get into a lengthy conversation here.
I've never had a problem making money doing it the right way. Even with the reinspects that had to be repaired. The car was already a problem before I got it and the ins co. just wants the problem solved being as it was usually one of their "pro" shops they originally steered the customer to that jacked it up. I could ask for 10 hours to clean up panel bond or to find and dig out plug welds and do it the right way and they would pay it. I don't envy the paint guys these days with Ins Co's wanting the to panel paint 3 stage colors and what not, but on the body side it really helps if the person dealing with the adjuster has some formal training, I-car or the like. Sometimes the money is made with the pen in the yard after the initial teardown.
Do a little research on Mazda 46G, it's basically a 4 stage and THEY HARDEST color to match right now. Our paint rep is a master, and he goes from shop to shop spraying it and trying to teach others how to.

Brian
11-03-2018 03:20 PM
Hipster_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
What cracks me up about the hack shops that do insurance work and cut it short, you can make money doing it right! You can make GOOD money doing it right, you can get paid to do it RIGHT! Why be a hack?
.

Brian
LOL, I could get into a lengthy conversation here.
I've never had a problem making money doing it the right way. Even with the reinspects that had to be repaired. The car was already a problem before I got it and the ins co. just wants the problem solved being as it was usually one of their "pro" shops they originally steered the customer to that jacked it up. I could ask for 10 hours to clean up panel bond or to find and dig out plug welds and do it the right way and they would pay it. I don't envy the paint guys these days with Ins Co's wanting the to panel paint 3 stage colors and what not, but on the body side it really helps if the person dealing with the adjuster has some formal training, I-car or the like. Sometimes the money is made with the pen in the yard after the initial teardown.
11-03-2018 01:34 PM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipster_G View Post
I can remember walking into a small shop at 14 and asking if they needed help after school. He said go wash that car "kid" and told me the shop bucket and hose were against the wall. 2 minutes later he running back over "Hey kid, I can't have you wetting and washing the whole damn shop. Like this, from the top down. " A couple weeks later "Hey kid, what are you doing? This is how you tri-fold paper to color sand and then you wheel it like this." A couple months later "Hey kid, no cars to wash or buff today, take this grinder and grind the circled spots, sand, and then mix and put this stuff on like this and wait." 20 minutes later "Hey kid, That **** never dried. Grab some rags, thinners and a putty knife it comes off like this." By the end of the afternoon I had a handle on it. The next day I show up after school, walk in and I really thought I was somebody I got a new nickname and a raise. For a couple months all I heard was "hey kid" and "like this" and from that day forward that *^%$%%* called me "THE DING KING" ROFLMAO
I loved every minute of it. His name was George same as mine. Great guy and a great teacher. I learned alot from him in a short amount of time.

Oh the hack jobs, I worked in a shop where we were a re-inspect and re-repair facility for 2 major insurance co's. I got most of them along with the frame swaps. I can't say I've seen everything but had seen some cars welded together with some serious twists and wadded up rails in them down to cradles and control arms with the holes gaped open with a die grinder trying to gain on the alignment specs. Some of the cars came out of some pretty well respected shops in town. Some totaled on the re-inspect, some fixed.
What cracks me up about the hack shops that do insurance work and cut it short, you can make money doing it right! You can make GOOD money doing it right, you can get paid to do it RIGHT! Why be a hack?

I didn't do as you did around the shop as a kid. I worked in "shop" (an old horse barn after we got rid of the last horse) and then for a few months sweeping the floors at a body shop, then full time repairing cars one week out of highschool. Now mind you, it was crazy hack used car work I was doing, LOL but I learned a lot about what NOT to do!

In my own shop I had a couple of different kids in the neighborhood who could come by on their bicycles and sweep the shop. I still see one of them regularly, he and his wife own two amazing restaurants in nearby towns. They do EVERYTHING right, amazing couple with amazing talents in that business for sure! It is so cool to go over and sit down in their restaurant often with one of them joining us for a few minutes during the meal. To think this man use to come over to my shop in his bike to sweep the floor. Very cool, very very cool to think about, I made a good friend with him for sure.

Brian
11-03-2018 01:17 PM
Hipster_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
You know what's funny, we remember things for some unknown reason. One thing we do, next thing we don't. I know two different things I do working on cars that were taught to me by HORRIBLE co-workers. One of them got fired after he did some seriously dangersous hack work that I had to redo after he was fired. The other was by a guy who was an amazing tech, just a FLAMING JERK who when he walked around the shop asking people "Do you want me to leave" everyone said yes. LOL I have taught these things to others and every time I give the credit to the guys who taught me, without telling the them the bad stuff the guy also did.

The big thing is to pass it on for others, if we remember, cool, if we don't, it's not the end of the world.

Brian
I can remember walking into a small shop at 14 and asking if they needed help after school. He said go wash that car "kid" and told me the shop bucket and hose were against the wall. 2 minutes later he running back over "Hey kid, I can't have you wetting and washing the whole damn shop. Like this, from the top down. " A couple weeks later "Hey kid, what are you doing? This is how you tri-fold paper to color sand and then you wheel it like this." A couple months later "Hey kid, no cars to wash or buff today, take this grinder and grind the circled spots, sand, and then mix and put this stuff on like this and wait." 20 minutes later "Hey kid, That **** never dried. Grab some rags, thinners and a putty knife it comes off like this." By the end of the afternoon I had a handle on it. The next day I show up after school, walk in and I really thought I was somebody I got a new nickname and a raise. For a couple months all I heard was "hey kid" and "like this" and from that day forward that *^%$%%* called me "THE DING KING" ROFLMAO
He was hard on me, but I loved every minute of it. His name was George same as mine. Great guy and a great teacher. I learned alot from him in a short amount of time.

Oh the hack jobs, I worked in a shop where we were a re-inspect and re-repair facility for 2 major insurance co's. I got most of them along with the frame swaps. I can't say I've seen everything but had seen some cars welded together with some serious twists and wadded up rails in them down to cradles and control arms with the holes gaped open with a die grinder trying to gain on the alignment specs. Some of the mangled cars came out of some pretty well respected shops in town. Some totaled on the re-inspect, some fixed. The one I worked at wasn't winning any popularity contests amongst the other shop owners in town and actually hosted all the I-car training for the area.
11-03-2018 09:59 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipster_G View Post
Ditto,

Over 35+ years I've learned so much from so many different people and learned at least something from almost everybody I've ever worked with. Some of whom I have forgotten their names and what exactly they taught me.

They taught me without looking for validation or to have their ego's stroked and many do the same for others. So for someone to look for footnotes and bibliographies or call someone out in the passing of a slick tip or general info on an informal website just seems ridiculous.

Some of those that have been doing it a long time take things that are routine or the most basic of things for granted and some forget where they came from as they too had to learn from somewhere. I'm sure some appreciated the info posted and Brian being excited about his new toy.
You know what's funny, we remember things for some unknown reason. One thing we do, next thing we don't. I know two different things I do working on cars that were taught to me by HORRIBLE co-workers. One of them got fired after he did some seriously dangersous hack work that I had to redo after he was fired. The other was by a guy who was an amazing tech, just a FLAMING JERK who when he walked around the shop asking people "Do you want me to leave" everyone said yes. LOL I have taught these things to others and every time I give the credit to the guys who taught me, without telling the them the bad stuff the guy also did.

The big thing is to pass it on for others, if we remember, cool, if we don't, it's not the end of the world.

Brian
11-03-2018 02:42 AM
Hipster_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
being excited about a new toy is great! Often overlooked when someone is posting about something like that. We're all kids when it comes to this, whether it be a car, a tool, or a cool technique. Sharing is caring...ok, that last line was corny.
ok, enough with the Kumbuya's and the hand holding. lol
11-03-2018 02:14 AM
tech69 being excited about a new toy is great! Often overlooked when someone is posting about something like that. We're all kids when it comes to this, whether it be a car, a tool, or a cool technique. Sharing is caring...ok, that last line was corny.
11-03-2018 01:24 AM
Hipster_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
I recall this happening to a procedure I wrote about as well. No shame, I borrow techniques wherever it makes sense. Nobody's inventing the wheel here. I at least try it out and give it a good run before suggesting it to others, that way I'm aware of the pros and cons. If you aren't getting your hands dirty it's vague and not full of detail. Not suggesting Martin does this though
Ditto,

Over 35+ years I've learned so much from so many different people and learned at least something from almost everybody I've ever worked with. Some of whom I have forgotten their names and what exactly they taught me.

They taught me without looking for validation or to have their ego's stroked and many do the same for others. So for someone to look for footnotes and bibliographies or call someone out in the passing of a slick tip or general info on an informal website just seems ridiculous.

Some of those that have been doing it a long time take things that are routine or the most basic of things for granted and some forget where they came from as they too had to learn from somewhere. I'm sure some appreciated the info posted and Brian being excited about his new toy.
11-02-2018 09:35 PM
tech69
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the painter View Post
Good advice as always John, my point is It's nothing new it's been around for years it's called a pressure pot. In fact deadbodyman posted that gravity gun with the hose quite a few years ago. It could very well have been an original thought from our friend Brian but it sounded to me like he's taking credit for someone else's idea and I wouldn't have realized it if I didn't go back and breeze over everything from post 2 and on. So thanks for that it was wrong for me to assume that just turning the gun upside down was all there was. BRian, if that was truly your own thought then fantastic glad to see your thinking out of the box. If not shame on you, I've seen many out of the box ideas from deadbodyman posted this is one I remember and tried myself a long time ago.
I recall this happening to a procedure I wrote about as well. No shame, I borrow techniques wherever it makes sense. Nobody's inventing the wheel here. I at least try it out and give it a good run before suggesting it to others, that way I'm aware of the pros and cons. If you aren't getting your hands dirty it's vague and not full of detail. Not suggesting Martin does this though
11-02-2018 07:51 PM
MARTINSR Mike, after my last post I was chuckling all day, no kidding, thanks. I was chuckling because I have had a few people accuse me of "googling" my info and "copy and pasting" and that sort of thing. I even had a guy from a forum call me once acting like he needed info and asked me about a procedure on a hot rodding subject and I thought it was odd. I then realized he asked me this to see if I could give the answer out of my head because he thought I was "googling" the stuff I post! LOLOLOL, no really, LOLOLOLOL!

Nope, since one week, literally one week out of high school June 1977 I went to my first full time job as a body man. Yep, I BARELY got my diploma, that's the funny part, wasn't very good at English, or any other class!

This photo was taken August 1st 1977, a little over a month after I graduated. My second enamel complete, my third complete paint job. First being in lacquer, my 65 Nova SS. Then my brothers Model A pickup (that I chopped the top on) and then this one, my truck that I chopped the top on (well started to chop it, it took me a couple of years!) about two months after turning 16. I have done everything in this industry, used car body work (that first job) full time painter at a collision shop next, then full on restoration body and paint at another. Then a few different including painting semi trucks. Then back into collision and then onto my own shop for 13 years where I did everything from cleaning the toilet to paint and body, restorations, customs, chop tops and what not, to collision work on late model cars. Closed that, then became a parts man because my mind was fried with the whole shop ownership (I respect small business owners BIG TIME) then a paint rep for S-W for 4 years (learned a LOT there!) then back into the collision industry where I have done everything from body to paint to estimating to parts.

Yep, for 41 years, done crap used car work, sat in an office writing estimates, put a car in the main arena of the GNRS that I did every single spec of body and paint work on, put another on the front page of a national magazine, again, doing every single spec of paint and body on. Replaced panels on month old new cars, made art out of car parts, went into hundreds of shops as a paint rep seeing everything you can imagine. Yep, I have been in this industry for my working life outside of delivering newspapers on my bike before I graduated high school.

You made me think of all this today and I thank you, I am getting close to retirement and this has been an awesome ride, I am very thankful for the gift God gave me to be able to do this stuff, some of it simply "work" but a lot of it enjoyable as hell!

I DIG seeing people who don't do this every day be able to. That's why I started writing my "Basics of Basics" not just to "tell someone" how to do something but to "put the tool in their hand" as they read it to give them the confidence that they could do it, even thought it wasn't their thing as it is mine. Goodness knows I have said things over the years not giving credit to those who deserve it. I did it to Dan right here on Hotrodders. I did a "Basics" on how to do a convertible top with all the info he gave me and I failed to mention him in that "Basics" I posted elsewhere. When it was brought to my attention I went there and screamed from the mountain tops how much he helped me, he helped me so much I couldn't find a mountain top tall enough, I hope I made my mistake all good. No, I don't do it to toot my horn, I do it to help others be able to do it without spending the years I have busting my knuckles (or more appropriately "grinding my knuckles" LOL got a few hurting fingers as I type this.) But that is why I did them, not to toot my horn.

As I said, I didn't get good grades, I still ask my wife all the time how to properly punctuate or spell, I want it to look proper. It's funny, I need some "Basics of Basics" on English to do them! LOL

But thank you so much for the chuckle today. It sounds like I have faked knowing the English pretty well then huh? Thank goodness for spell check!

It's all good Mike, take it easy.

Brian
11-02-2018 03:34 PM
MARTINSR LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, thanks so much for the laugh, and for the compliment. You don't mean to compliment me but someone thinking that I copy and past my "Basics of Basics" because somehow being able to write something so well is beyond a normal bodymans English skills is a compliment, thanks so much. Especially when I did so poorly in school, that really is saying a lot, thanks so much.

Brian
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