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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-24-2019 05:55 PM
BogiesAnnex1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleSS_LS6 View Post
This would scoot, legit.



What are we chasing, pennies or ponies? The 383 will cost a little more, the 350 would cost less, and of course be a little shorter on the power and torque front... all other factors being equal.



Now, if you're from Holland, Michigan, you start with the GMPP engine with the smogger heads. You may also use wire coat hangers to make your own piston rings, because its cheaper. And you skimp out on zinc'd oil with the big flat tappet cam and wonder why you wiped lobes on it. lol (people are notoriously tight pursed in Holland). Going with the first is fine, but the later... not so much!





The low buck GMPP 350 can be built into a solid 400 horse engine on a budget with little more than a Comp XE268H cam, and massaging a pair of Vortec heads you can probably do that for about 3500 dollars including the Goodwrench long block. For a guy on a budget this is a lot of bang for the buck, and it stays together. Sounds like something the tight pursed people of Holland, Michigan could get in line for. I know this is a popular solution for cash short guys here in the northwest. Not everybody here has as much money as Bill Gates, a lot of guys here assemble airplanes and like the line of an old song about working at Ford "get by on their overtime".


You can do that starting with the GMPP L31 and add an LT4HOT cam and bring that in for about 4000, not bad either for what are basically crate builds.


If you roll your own or buy off Ebay you can get to a 383 for about the same cash, but the OP pointed out that super amounts of power was not what he wanted, and a light T-tub should be mighty impressive even with 350 to 380 hp which is easy to get at even with a Goodwrench starting point.




Bogie
08-24-2019 07:27 AM
123pugsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
383 with Pro-Filer 185 aluminum heads, hydraulic roller cam with 208 to 210 degrees intake duration, no more than 9.5:1 static compression ratio, 2000 rpm stall converter, Performer RPM intake, 650 Edelbrock AVS2 carb, limit fuel pressure to 5 psi. This motor will haul the mail from 1500 to 5200.



X3 or is it 4?



Excellent torque for a light car. She'll do donuts on dry pavement. The mail may go flying though, when spinning in circles....
08-23-2019 09:06 AM
ChevelleSS_LS6
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
383 with Pro-Filer 185 aluminum heads, hydraulic roller cam with 208 to 210 degrees intake duration, no more than 9.5:1 static compression ratio, 2000 rpm stall converter, Performer RPM intake, 650 Edelbrock AVS2 carb, limit fuel pressure to 5 psi. This motor will haul the mail from 1500 to 5200.
This would scoot, legit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogiesAnnex1 View Post
A little perspective on modern power.


These days extracting over 400 pound feet and like horsepower on a 350 is simple and very street worthy. Not that I'm against a 383 at all, just trying to plumb the depths of what you consider ample street power in a steel T bucket. At 2500 pounds such power pretty stout.


Bogie
What are we chasing, pennies or ponies? The 383 will cost a little more, the 350 would cost less, and of course be a little shorter on the power and torque front... all other factors being equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogiesAnnex1 View Post
The performance GMPP Vortec crate motor is rated 330 hp and comes with a roller cam and of course Vortec heads. A good basic choice that with no other mods than adding the LT4HOT cam will grow to 375 to 385 depending on how good your exhaust system is. This is in by 5600 with about 400 pound feet of torque at 3000.

As has been stated earlier the GMPP 290 hp is a SMOG headed long cammed motor with a flat tappet cam, there also is a smaller cammed version at 240 hp that is otherwise identical. I did some cost estimates several years ago which show that the most bang for the buck is to build on the lowly 240 hp version. GM wants a lot of money for the 290 version which except for the cam is identical to the 240. This cam can be had from the aftermarket for about a 100 dollars, so just buying the 240 plus the bigger cam from an aftermarket source puts you a few hundred ahead even if you don't change the heads.

Either of these lower buck GMPP motors will respond to modern heads with better power and lower fuel burn, whether that choice is factory Vortecs or something from the aftermarket. Even inexpensive import heads bring sizeable increases in power with lower fuel burn. The bigger the cam the more staggering the power numbers get with these heads. AFR heads with a cam timing like the Comp XE268H flat tappet or the GMPP LT4HOT roller would easily peak with 400 plus foot pounds at about 3000 and over 400 hp around 5800. These are sizeable numbers from a pretty calm 350. Neither of these cams demand a higher than stock stall converter, they are right at that edge but for street use a factory stall converter works fine.

Bogie
Now, if you're from Holland, Michigan, you start with the GMPP engine with the smogger heads. You may also use wire coat hangers to make your own piston rings, because its cheaper. And you skimp out on zinc'd oil with the big flat tappet cam and wonder why you wiped lobes on it. lol (people are notoriously tight pursed in Holland). Going with the first is fine, but the later... not so much!
08-21-2019 05:30 PM
V8Square
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnymike View Post
Understanding everyone has different needs for what's wanted/needed for a street motor I am looking for some real world suggestions. I have a 2500 lb. car and looking to get a good sbc to replace my existing tired anchor. I'm not looking for mega power, won't break torque the thing at lights but, want to occasionally put my foot in it and not embarrass myself. 90% around town and some road trips. And if it sounds good...a plus. Am looking for a crate motor to keep it simple. thank you for any help.
Try Pace Performance for a crate motor
08-21-2019 04:51 PM
Chevellemansb400 I used a 274 284 cam with a holley 750 double pumper. Blew the doors off of most street cars in my 72 chevelle.
08-21-2019 04:49 PM
Chevellemansb400 You can't go wrong with a sbc 400. All around great engine and not to many of em in your type of vechile.
08-21-2019 09:38 AM
BogiesAnnex1
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnymike View Post
Thank you techinspector and Bogies. Those ideas add to my info base so I won't get something disappointing. Don't need or want 500 hp or a motor that needs 6000 rpm to run. Just a fun street motor. Thanks.
The performance GMPP Vortec crate motor is rated 330 hp and comes with a roller cam and of course Vortec heads. A good basic choice that with no other mods than adding the LT4HOT cam will grow to 375 to 385 depending on how good your exhaust system is. This is in by 5600 with about 400 pound feet of torque at 3000.

As has been stated earlier the GMPP 290 hp is a SMOG headed long cammed motor with a flat tappet cam, there also is a smaller cammed version at 240 hp that is otherwise identical. I did some cost estimates several years ago which show that the most bang for the buck is to build on the lowly 240 hp version. GM wants a lot of money for the 290 version which except for the cam is identical to the 240. This cam can be had from the aftermarket for about a 100 dollars, so just buying the 240 plus the bigger cam from an aftermarket source puts you a few hundred ahead even if you don't change the heads.

Either of these lower buck GMPP motors will respond to modern heads with better power and lower fuel burn, whether that choice is factory Vortecs or something from the aftermarket. Even inexpensive import heads bring sizeable increases in power with lower fuel burn. The bigger the cam the more staggering the power numbers get with these heads. AFR heads with a cam timing like the Comp XE268H flat tappet or the GMPP LT4HOT roller would easily peak with 400 plus foot pounds at about 3000 and over 400 hp around 5800. These are sizeable numbers from a pretty calm 350. Neither of these cams demand a higher than stock stall converter, they are right at that edge but for street use a factory stall converter works fine.

Bogie
08-19-2019 04:51 PM
cerial 2.2 l61(fwd gm car 02-06).

They make good torque down low.

Easy plug and run stand alone setups out there for around $400.

150+ lbs weight savings over a v8

Adapters to most transmissions

Easy to find cheap

Good mileage

Ohc

Reliable


I have a 04 ion currently. 2.2, 5 speed, no abs, electric steering, plastic body with strong subframe, ok mileage, and most importantly cheap.
Burns no oil, leaks nothing, good compression everything works like it should.

244k on the dash currently. This is my 3rd one and will make it to 250. First made it to 280 with stock timing chain, 2nd the stock clutch went out at 220 and I just wanted something diffrent.

0-60 in under 8 seconds. 0-40 in under 6 in a 3700ish pound car. Not great but not terrible for around $1500.

Engine has a nice torque curve which makes for a very fun around town car.

Should move your ride around easily enough while improving handling slightly.

Entire cars go for around 1500 running, engines go for around 6-800, remans for around twice that.
08-19-2019 03:57 PM
techinspector1 Cam comes on at 1500, intake manifold comes on at 1500. Life is good.
08-19-2019 03:04 PM
64nailhead
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnymike View Post
Thank you techinspector and Bogies. Those ideas add to my info base so I won't get something disappointing. Don't need or want 500 hp or a motor that needs 6000 rpm to run. Just a fun street motor. Thanks.
It sounds as if you're not extremely knowledgeable about build/motor specs. Re-read TI's last post- - that is a small cam (implying low RPM) 383 with mild compression that will be EXTREMELY streetable and will hall the mail in a 4500lb truck. Put it in your 2500 unit and it will make you feel as if you're delivering the mail via air...lol. I reiterate 'streetable'.

Being 'streetable' comes down to cam specs. So a mild cam will be more streetable. To overcome the 'streetable' you need some additional cubes, hence the 383.


FWIW - I LOVE to haul the mail and I'm sure you will as well.
08-19-2019 01:05 PM
Dfish1247 https://blueprintengines.com/product...lock-bp4003ct1


Just an example, I'd bet if you were to call, they would put a smaller cam in no extra charge. Not cheap by any means, but you're paying for someone else's work and all aftermarket stuff. It'll give you the "little more" you're looking for. This isn't the only place to go get a motor, just an example.


Or you could get an assembled short block and finish putting it together. Being the car is a toy and you're not wanting wild, use a flat tappet cam, springs to match on the heads, high zinc oil, and roll on.


Being you never stated a budget, have no idea what honest direction to go.
08-19-2019 11:24 AM
skinnymike Thank you techinspector and Bogies. Those ideas add to my info base so I won't get something disappointing. Don't need or want 500 hp or a motor that needs 6000 rpm to run. Just a fun street motor. Thanks.
08-19-2019 11:02 AM
BogiesAnnex1 A little perspective on modern power.


These days extracting over 400 pound feet and like horsepower on a 350 is simple and very street worthy. Not that I'm against a 383 at all, just trying to plumb the depths of what you consider ample street power in a steel T bucket. At 2500 pounds such power pretty stout.


Bogie
08-19-2019 10:31 AM
techinspector1 383 with Pro-Filer 185 aluminum heads, hydraulic roller cam with 208 to 210 degrees intake duration, no more than 9.5:1 static compression ratio, 2000 rpm stall converter, Performer RPM intake, 650 Edelbrock AVS2 carb, limit fuel pressure to 5 psi. This motor will haul the mail from 1500 to 5200.
08-19-2019 07:30 AM
skinnymike Thank you 75. I know a decent 350 in my car will perform well. But, we all want a "little' more. Those examples look good, will look at them more. I'm looking for good low end torque and hoping for responses from someone that went the same route I am thinking of. I don't know what to look for on paper such as cam specs, carb, etc so the question for someone with experience. Going to have the trans gone through this winter, then see about a motor. A little time to find what I want. Hopefully . Again, thanks.
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