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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-31-2014 10:45 AM
MARTINSR LOL, I was looking it up to copy and paste it somewhere and saw that.

Brian
03-31-2014 10:33 AM
Irelands child Good grief Brian, you are just now catching up on a 2009 last posted thread??

Dave W
03-31-2014 09:29 AM
tech69 for the sake of simplicity, read a tutorial but get out there and practice. There's a feel for it that can only be attained by practicing, but there's also a need for knowledge so read up before doing so. So get out there with some scrap and dial your instincts in!
03-31-2014 09:24 AM
MARTINSR Of course there is a screwup in this "Basics"


Basic principles of MIG welding are this: You have VOLTAGE, the pressure that pushes electrons through a circuit. Then CURRENT, (same as amperage) the amount of electrons being pushed. And RESISTANCE this restricts electrons from flowing. The gas (Argon, CO2, or a mixture of both 75-25% is most common) is blowing away the impurities in the air around and on the surface of the weld. If there is a breeze you may need to up the pressure from the recommended 25-30 cubic feet per hour (CFH) or 3-4 PSI.

Brian
06-18-2009 07:54 AM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by lude-de
. I like the idea of joining the metal together as opposed to basically soldering it.


Just a couple of things here, first you are right in that the MIG is the best choice in most cases but Oxy/Acetylene can be used to weld the panels but should not be used to braze them. Was your buddy actually talking about brazing with a Bronze rod or welding with a steel rod? While brazing with Bronze will certainly hold the panels together OK it would involve serious warpage problems and problems with paint/primer adhesion. Oxy/Acetylene welding with a steel rod does work and is actually the preferred method for some people but it is very tricky to do without badly warping the panel and usually requires more hammer/dolly work to finish, it does however make an excellent joint that can be "worked" with hammer and dolly even easier than a MIG weld. Also the idea that brazing is basicly just soldering is a common misconception about the process. While not a good choice at all for body work brazing is a heck of a lot stronger than most people think and it certainly can have a place in hotrod building. A properly done braze joint using a good Bronze rod can actually approach the strength of some steel welds and will a lot of times exceed the strength of a "weld" joint on cast iron. While you would not want to braze a critical part it is sometimes a very good choice for brackets, housing repair, etc. The basic process is similar to soldering but the difference in strength is VERY different indeed!
06-17-2009 10:40 PM
lude-de
Quote:
Originally Posted by lude-de
Outstanding article. Very informative.

Now for my question. I've got some rust down by my rear wheels on the quarter panel. It's eaten into the metal (as rust does) and for the moment I have fiberglassed and bondo'd the spot.

I have two more spots that are right in front of the rear wheels and I would like to move up to a more "correct" way to repair the problem.

I've been reading on MIG welding and I have access to a small MIG welder that uses Argon gas. It's a good welder. But in talking with a friend who a former mechanic and generally informed guy, he suggested the possibility of brazing with O/A.

There are no quarter panels available so I will have to pick up some sheet metal (not sure what guage yet) and I will have to "create" the patch panels.

So... two questions:

1. Which is the "correct" way? MIG or brazing wtih O/A? I like the idea of joining the metal together as opposed to basically soldering it. But is it necessary?

2. What guage and type of sheet metal should I be purchasing. My car is a Honda. How can I measure what guage is used for the body panels?

Thanks in advance!
I should have done more reading before posting...

I see that brazing for butt welds is a bad idea. Also not preferred for body panels. I'll borrow the MIG.

Thanks folks.
06-17-2009 08:28 PM
lude-de Outstanding article. Very informative.

Now for my question. I've got some rust down by my rear wheels on the quarter panel. It's eaten into the metal (as rust does) and for the moment I have fiberglassed and bondo'd the spot.

I have two more spots that are right in front of the rear wheels and I would like to move up to a more "correct" way to repair the problem.

I've been reading on MIG welding and I have access to a small MIG welder that uses Argon gas. It's a good welder. But in talking with a friend who a former mechanic and generally informed guy, he suggested the possibility of brazing with O/A.

There are no quarter panels available so I will have to pick up some sheet metal (not sure what guage yet) and I will have to "create" the patch panels.

So... two questions:

1. Which is the "correct" way? MIG or brazing wtih O/A? I like the idea of joining the metal together as opposed to basically soldering it. But is it necessary?

2. What guage and type of sheet metal should I be purchasing. My car is a Honda. How can I measure what guage is used for the body panels?

Thanks in advance!
06-17-2009 09:29 AM
Irelands child You are so correct - but in essence, I DID NOT NEED ANY LONG DISSERTATION ONLY BRIEF REMINDER OF MY ERROR IN TERMINOLOGY FROM A COUPLE OF FOLKS WHO'S OPINIONS AND DISCUSSIONS I USUALLY FULLY APPRECIATE!!!

The question the gentleman asked - can he use the flux core welder - yes, he can - that question I answered.

Dave W
06-16-2009 11:03 PM
EvanFullwood
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
UOTE]I have a cheap flux core mig welder




ALL MIGs already use gas, there is no such thing as a gas-less MIG or "flux core MIG welder"!!!! Fellows it is a lot more than just being technical, getting the terminology right is important and calling a flux core welder a MIG not only leads to confusion and mistakes it is wrong and makes whoever is doing it look unprofessional and lacking in skill. This has come up here several times before and has caused confusion in the past when someone asks about a problem with a MIG and someone posts a reply only to discover the machine is not a MIG at all, a flux core welder is just that and it is NOT a MIG! This has caused more than just confusion in a discussion and I have seen it lead to confusion on the job, in one case an employee who insisted on doing this cost me several thousand dollars because improper equipment was used instead of the specified process.


MIG=(M)etal (I)nert (G)as



I am not trying to be a SmartA** and I am not trying to be overly technical because in most cases even the term MIG is not entirely correct since most of the time we are using an active gas such as CO2 or a mix containing CO2. In this case the correct term is MAG welder but MIG is almost always used and is pretty much accepted terminology in the industry, the same is not true with flux core which is a different process. Just as walking into a truck shop and refering to all large trucks as "simis", for example, would make a person sound very amaturish going into a welding shop or business and getting your welding terms wrong will give someone (a perspective employer maybe?) a very low opinion of your knowledge.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the information!
06-16-2009 10:50 PM
MARTINSR And my I add that OldRed is most certainly not being a smart ars. Basic terminology is needed to get you thru, if you don't have that you are in trouble.

If you go the "Basic hotrodding" forum you will see one I have on nuts and bolts, that type of thing is really important.

I can't believe the amount of "pros" who call the R134A REFRIGERANT in a modern cars air conditioning system "Freon".

And don't call urethane primer "2K" either, that again is wrong. Well, it isn't "wrong" in that urethane primer IS "2K", but so is ANY primer with a hardener like epoxy (that people simply call "epoxy"). You have "epoxy" and "urethane" call it the proper name and you will get the proper product.

Ok, I am off my soap box.

Brian
06-16-2009 09:45 PM
oldred
Quote:
I have a cheap flux core mig welder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
most MIG machines can be converted to gas


ALL MIGs already use gas, there is no such thing as a gas-less MIG or "flux core MIG welder"!!!! Fellows it is a lot more than just being technical, getting the terminology right is important and calling a flux core welder a MIG not only leads to confusion and mistakes it is wrong and makes whoever is doing it look unprofessional and lacking in skill. This has come up here several times before and has caused confusion in the past when someone asks about a problem with a MIG and someone posts a reply only to discover the machine is not a MIG at all, a flux core welder is just that and it is NOT a MIG! This has caused more than just confusion in a discussion and I have seen it lead to confusion on the job, in one case an employee who insisted on doing this cost me several thousand dollars because improper equipment was used instead of the specified process.


MIG=(M)etal (I)nert (G)as



I am not trying to be a SmartA** and I am not trying to be overly technical because in most cases even the term MIG is not entirely correct since most of the time we are using an active gas such as CO2 or a mix containing CO2. In this case the correct term is MAG welder but MIG is almost always used and is pretty much accepted terminology in the industry, the same is not true with flux core which is a different process. Just as walking into a truck shop and refering to all large trucks as "semis", for example, would make a person sound very amaturish going into a welding shop or business and getting your welding terms wrong will give someone (a perspective employer maybe?) a very low opinion of your knowledge.
06-16-2009 03:00 PM
Irelands child A flux core MIG will work just fine, though it will leave lots of weld splatter to clean up - a saving grace with gas. As a note, most MIG machines can be converted to gas fairly reasonably and it is well worth it for the time saved with not having to clean everything off before paint. I tried a total of one panel before I added gas
06-16-2009 01:26 PM
EvanFullwood I enjoyed what i read of that article...

Im 20 years old, and going to Tulsa welding school, im on the last week of my 2nd phase.
Right now we are stick welding, we start mig welding in the 3rd phase*next week*.
Basically the school teaches structure welding, pipe welding, etc etc..

i want to learn to weld body panels, and anything to do with cars....
I have a cheap flux core mig welder......That i have yet to use......
It does not use gas...

My question is, would it be decent enough to use to weld on body panels, and to repair rust spots?
10-23-2008 12:05 AM
timothale
more tips

In the old days we had asbestos heat putty, mixed with stuff like molding clay. ...Today they have new safe heat putty ,, about $ 10 a pint at the welding supplier. you put a 1/2 bead about 1/2 inch from the weld each side ... it absorbs the heat to minimize warpage, and you can reuse it ...NEW fake pennies are only copper coated>>>i think zinc on the inside and zinc is DANGEROUS if it gets hot enough to burn. also I have some copper back up's. some from copper water pipe hammered and shaped and some from some 1/4 x 2 copper bar stock. they help prevent burn thru,,
06-28-2007 02:42 PM
MARTINSR What I use is a foot or so long piece of copper pipe smashed down flat at one end. Works like a charm and you have a handle!

Brian
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