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Old 04-12-2014, 11:03 AM
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Next step....re high build and sand with 400 or epoxy and sand with 400

I have my car finished in 180. Very few sand throughs and the body is very straight....the light patterns on the wax and grease remover would be perfect for base.....except for the 180 scratches.
I'm bad at using high build and either go too slow or fast.....too close or too far. I ran it and sprayed dry in some spots and created a lot of orange peel and runs in others. And others it was perfect.
The first time ran it dry and had to take it back off. So I'm in about 40 hours of just the first round of blocking. Each time all the panels run about 15 to 20 hours. I've sprayed it twice now....... Hence my apprehension to spraying more on there.

Gun is finishline 4
30psi at regulator
Fan was wide open
Fluid was all the way out then 2 turns in

When I spray this again with high build to fill the 180.... Then sand that with 400. If I run it and get either runs or uneven wave 400 will flatten it but it won't cut out the imperfections.
Then I was going to seal it and maybe run into more trouble. What should I do here if I do get the mess I had before. I went over it with a da to take down the orange peel and still had enough on there for block sanding




can I spray maybe 1 or 2 coats of epoxy.....sand with 400-600 and then base clear. The epoxy will fill the 180 scratches? I've sprayed epoxy a lot and get better results with it.

This would save me a weekend. It took me 15 solid hours to block the car.

Another question
Using a red scotch Brite pad to get into tight spaces,......like the roof rack or tail light housing.....or the window seal bases spot welds. The pad gets in there much better. Will it provide the scratches I need to either put on more high build or epoxy? I can always go back over it with 180 for the main surfaces but the pad gets into places like the crevices in the seam sealer and the rugged mounting mechanism of the roof rack sub base. None of it will be seen.

The primer is marhyde
The epoxy is spi

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Last edited by glhx; 04-12-2014 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:02 PM
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I would go with the SPI epoxy but I am not a pro. Maybe Shine or maybe one of the pros will step up.
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:37 PM
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Mix the epoxy, put in a container with a lid and let it induce over night. It will go on thicker and build more if you still need build to final block before paint. It should fill the 180 scratches this way as well with no issues later on of shrinking. I would put at least 2 coats, 3 if you plan to block any more after the epoxy. When you get all the sanding done and are ready for paint, mix the epoxy 1:1:1/2 or 1:1:1 and spray one medium wet coat (youre not going for coverage, just want an even coat for adhesion) let it set for 2 hours at 70 degrees and spray your base

What size tip is your gun? I am not being critical, but by the pictures it looks like the gun is putting out enough material, but you may be a little inconsistent with your movement. You may also have been putting a little too heavy as well. I don't mean to seem ugly, just what it appears. If the gun you're using is a 1.7 or larger, try turning the fluid all the way in and then back it out 2 1/2 or 3 turns, pressure at the gun around 30 for a conventional gun is probably close enough to start (you may try around 20 for a HVLP), then with the fan wide open, test spray a few patterns and turn the fan back a little at a time until you get an even spray top to bottom. Try to keep a consistent distance and speed while spraying, and try spray the length of the panel to avoid overlapping the pattern on the panel. That can create the problem you were having in the pictures as well as inconsistent speed/distance. Not being critical, just offering advice

Kelly
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:14 AM
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I came here for advice.
Be critical

Your right.....I did have inconsistent movement and distance at times
I was afraid to spray dry so I moved slow and watched it pile on.

Gun is Hvlp devilbiss finishline 4
Setting was 23 and 30psi at the base.....I tried both and settled for 25
Fluid was all the way out and 2 turns in

Even spray top to bottom.....thank you....that helps a lot. I saw a video on this but forgot that part. That will make a difference.

When I tested on paper it seemed different than on a panel......is this correct? Or should it be the same?

The primer dries fast. Even in the pot it was drying fast. I was on the phone for ten minutes talking to a paint guy on gun set up and it thickened up. Caused some weird spray patterns. Not giving me a lot of set up time.....epoxy is much better

I have 1 quart of black epoxy I was going to use as a sealer. And 1 quart of high build left. The material I sprayed on the car took 3/4 of the gallon. Plus the 1/4 from the first gallon. You would think a gallon would be enough for 3 coats. I'm only getting like 2.5 coats out of it. It might be enough though. The bolt on panels need little to none for coverage of the bare spots but were talking filling in those scratches here.

1 quart of high build
1 quart of epoxy
How can I use both before base? I don't know how far the high build or the epoxy will go. I just need to fill the 180.
Im not opposed to buying more epoxy....but it will set me back a weekend. I would like this sprayed today.

I believe after I fill in those scratches this last primer step when sanded will be it. It has been block sanded twice with 180 and will be checked with a light and a most of wax and grease remover for straightness.


It's all sanded down perfect with 180 scratches.
There are a few sand throughs to metal. Most of them should be even with the primer as I stopped as soon as they appeared. They are there enough to be defined though

Last edited by glhx; 04-13-2014 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:28 AM
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I'll post pictures today of where I'm at

I might buy more epoxy anyway. I still need to primer all the plastic
Bumpers
Small trim pieces.
Of course o was just going to do those pieces 1:1:1 and then base.......not sure

Could go 1:1.....it's got that factory cheap primer on there.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:19 AM
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Ok I finally found the post I was looking for. A friend of mine (69 widetrack/ Ray) posted this sometime back when he was still able to get on this forum regularly and I think it is one of the best explanations of how to set up a paint gun that I have ever read. Read through it and try ti for yourself to see if it helps you any. The reason I am stressing the gun set up and technique now is because if you mess up on primer, no big deal , sand it and have another go. If you mess up on the base or clear, it is a different more expensive game. Now is the time to learn or perfect gun adjustment and spraying technique.

"So here we go, your spray pattern should be about 8 to 10 inches long When spraying 6 to 8 inches away from the surface your painting. The pattern should look like and be a stretched out "0" with the same amount of paint being dispersed evenly throughout the pattern. A good way to check the pattern for being even is to first, tape a piece of masking paper to the wall in your shop/garage, spray a burst of paint on the masking paper. This will tell you if your pattern is that stretched out "0" that I was suggesting you need. If the pattern is not a stretched out "0" and is heavier on the top and on the bottom, you have too much air pressure or not enough volume of paint for the air pressure at your gun. If the pattern shows that your getting more paint in the center than the top or the bottom of the pattern, you don't have enough air pressure or too much paint volume. If it's heavier on the top and the bottom of the pattern, first, try reducing your air pressure, if that doesn't give you the "0" effect, add more paint volume. Play with this for a while until you get that stretched out "0" effect you need.

Sounds simple, right...LOL...Your not done yet. To make sure that your getting an even amount of paint throughout the pattern, give your air cap a 1/4 turn. Now when you spray paint on your masking paper, the stretched out "0" should be laying on it's side. Holding the paint gun in a stationary position, spray paint on the masking paper until the paint starts to run. Yes, this is a time when runs are good. The runs should be even from the ends of the pattern to the center. By even, I mean that there shouldn't be a heavier concentration of runs at one end than the other. If the runs are more concentrated anywhere in the pattern, you have a possibility of several problems, they are, a dirty air cap, a dirty or bent fluid tip and or needle, a bad gasket allowing air either in or out of the gun where a seal is needed (if this is the case your gun will usually give you a spitting or surging sound while your spraying as well. If any of these things occur, clean your gun. check for a worn or bent needle, get a rebuild kit for your gun or replace it (sometimes a paint gun can be so far gone, old technology that doesn't work with today's paints or the repair kit costs almost as much as a new paint gun that it isn't worth repairing). "



Hope this help explain it for you.

Kelly
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:29 AM
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I'd spray it with epoxy then base coat on top of that. I also had fits spraying primer surfacer, the only way I got it to spray good was to reduce it to the max, but then again it was over 90 inside my garage.. Epoxy I could spray well. Only thing is what color is your epoxy & what color is your base coat.
I wouldn't use this setting with primer but if your epoxy is thin or like milk, that's how mine was. Try 45 psi at the tank, 22 to 25 psi at the gun. Close the fluid control compleatly then 1 3/4 turns out. This is what I used as my gun setup no matter what I was spraying, except for primer surfacer.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:02 PM
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loose the marhyde and get some gray spi. mix 1:1 , DO NOT REDUCE . as kelly said mix and let set covered overnight. on your gun set fluid 3.5 turns out , pattern wide open then back 2 turns . put on a good wet coat give it an hour and do another . with the spi you will need no guide coat .
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:33 PM
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Not a big fan of the marhyde myself.
What I did was .....went over the car with a soft pad and some 320 to take the edges off of The 180 scratches.
I have very little high build left. Just 1 quart not mixed
And I have 3/4 a quart of black epoxy.
I was going to spray the car with epoxy to fill the bare spots in just those areas

Use the high build on the quarter panels where most of the bare spots are and hope I have enough Sprayable epoxy to cover the rest of the car with 2 good wet coats

This should cover the 180 scratches since I knocked down them with 320.
Then buy more epoxy to seal the car when going to base coat next weekend.

I'm hoping to have just enough material.

Ideally I would buy more epoxy and cover the whole car with 2 wet coats and sand to 400 then rough over it with 600 and spray the base.

I do wonder though if 1 coat will fill the 180 scratches with em knocked down like that. Either way the car is very straight. When going over the panels I felt smooth panels
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:23 PM
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Next step....re high build and sand with 400 or epoxy and sand with 400

Epoxy primer isn't a high building primer & won't fill 180 grit sand scratches. I would sand down with a coarser grit like 280-320 grit with the DA then 2 coats of high build Then block sand with the 400 grit . For BC/CC final sand with 500-600 grit dry and by hand .
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:36 PM
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The primer is block sanded with 180 and is very straight. A da would mess up the flat surface at this point.

Spi epoxy should fill those scratches.....I'll find out tomorrow. Most of them have been cut up with a finer 320 sandpaper on the parts that will show. I left things like the tail light housings and such still in 180.

Spi is a high solids epoxy and 2 coats should fill them. Either way........when I put it on there and sand it back down with 400 it will take the 180 scratches out. I have enough on there that for the most part I could take them out without filling at all. There were a few spots that went through which is the only reason I'm filling those scratches......and for good measure in case I miss one.

I'm not going to miss one. Not even 1 scratch before the base goes on there.
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:26 AM
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Spraying the black primer showed some scratches that were hidden before. It also showed what it would be like to spray black base coat. Every spec of dust and every scratch showed up. The 180 scratches look very aggressive after the primer turns flat.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:41 AM
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As long as you got 3 good coats of epoxy over your build primer all you need to do is wet sand with 400 and shoot it theres no need to spray a sealer on it. the epoxy IS the sealer....If you did reduce the epoxy and seal it it'll still need to be sanded again to get the dirt specks out,so skip the sealer step. Even with the 400 you'll see sanding scratches but don't worry the paint fills them..
.2-3 good coats of unreduced epoxy over the build primer ,sand with 400 and shoot...You can breeze over the 400 with 600 before you paint for a little piece of mind but its not really needed...

That Mar-hyde ultimate primer is pretty good stuff I used a ton of it. At least it WAS 20 yrs ago, if they haven't changed anything you wont have any problems using it.
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:17 AM
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i use nothing but epoxy for build . if 180 scratches are showing you did not get it wet . i shoot over 80 with it . the thing to remember is a primer does not need to be high build to work . on average i do 5-6 coats of epoxy blocking each coat. the first coat when starting to paint is a reduced coat of epoxy as a sealer.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Ford View Post
Epoxy primer isn't a high building primer & won't fill 180 grit sand scratches. I would sand down with a coarser grit like 280-320 grit with the DA then 2 coats of high build Then block sand with the 400 grit . For BC/CC final sand with 500-600 grit dry and by hand .
I most cases you would be right but the OP is using SPI epoxy and its not only easy to sand it IS a buildable primer ...I know this primer VERY well and it will easily fill 180 even reduced...I hardly use any high build primer any more because it works so well...
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