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-   -   No rear brakes on 1st pump (https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/no-rear-brakes-1st-pump-518731.html)

64nailhead 12-10-2018 08:53 PM

No rear brakes on 1st pump
 
As the title describes and at the same time the brake light will come on. Also the brake pedal is a little deeper than normal. If I pump the pedal twice or more, then all is well.

My guess is the proportioning valve is not functioning correctly, but I already guessed at a master cylinder and was wrong. So I figured I'd ask the experts before I guess poorly ..... again lol.


Vehicle is a '90 GTA Firebird with stock 4 wheel discs.

S10xGN 12-11-2018 09:05 AM

You've been around for awhile, so I'm sure you've checked the M/C fluid levels. Sounds like the prop valve is doing it's job, alerting you to an imbalance. Have you checked the rear calipers for signs of leakage? Might try bleeding the rears...

Russ

64nailhead 12-11-2018 02:59 PM

Funny you have mentioned bleeding the brakes :). I've bled them all. The rears though do not bleed correctly. The pedal travel stops before the pedal hits the floor when bleeding the rears. When bleeding the fronts it bleeds normally.

I wonder if the hose to the rear has crapped out (collapsed)?

55 Tony 12-11-2018 06:17 PM

I would have guessed the M/C also. Curious, how do you know the rear brakes aren't working?

64nailhead 12-11-2018 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 55 Tony (Post 4641709)
I would have guessed the M/C also. Curious, how do you know the rear brakes aren't working?

Car sitting on jack stands with tires removed. I have my son pump the brakes once and I easily turn the rear axles with a pry bar in the wheel studs.

64nailhead 12-16-2018 08:20 AM

So I'm convinced the issue is the proportioning valve. I can't seem to locate a new one that uses the metric fittings. So, 1st question, anyone have a source for these? And second, is it possible to find parts to rebuild this one? Last, any chance that this one could just be 'gummed up' and tearing it aprt and cleaning it will resolve?

I have little to no experience with these things other than I've never seen one fail. But from watching videos on youtube I see that many older ones, pre 1980's, can be cleaned and rebuilt with kits that are available.

Fang16 12-16-2018 08:33 AM

When bleeding the rears, does the fluid come out with the same pressure of flow as the front? Does it squirt or dribble?

64nailhead 12-16-2018 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fang16 (Post 4642729)
When bleeding the rears, does the fluid come out with the same pressure of flow as the front? Does it squirt or dribble?

No, it does not come out of the rear bleeders as it should. It does more than dribble, but not much. I'd say somewhere between a squirt and dribble. I'm experienced at bleeding brakes and it's obvious that the rears are not correct. If I try to bleed them on the first pump, it will barely dribble and the pedal doesn't drop. If they are pumped up, then the pedal drops, but not to the floor. When bleeding the fronts, everything acts normal when bleeding.

Fang16 12-16-2018 10:45 AM

Have u broke it lose at the hard line and flex line at the rear end and seen how it flows under pressure? That flex line might be bad.

64nailhead 12-16-2018 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fang16 (Post 4642759)
Have u broke it lose at the hard line and flex line at the rear end and seen how it flows under pressure? That flex line might be bad.



New - changed it about a month ago.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fang16 12-16-2018 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 64nailhead (Post 4642827)
New - changed it about a month ago.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The process is two fold, check the flex line and proportioning valve.

64nailhead 12-17-2018 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fang16 (Post 4642889)
The process is two fold, check the flex line and proportioning valve.

Define how to check the proportioning valve - lol. I've gone through a 'centering process' with it a couple of times with no avail.

I mentioned previously that I have no experience tearing apart proportioning valves, but I believe that I'm getting closer to getting some experience.

PHWOARchild 12-17-2018 07:52 AM

I've seen few proportioning valves go bad, but once it was narrowed down a bad one, everything else fell into place and I got a steady stream to all bleeders.


In recent years I've seen TOO many bad masters out of the box, but doubt this is your case. If you can't find a new one, are used ones available? Like putting on dirty underwear after a shower but a good diagnostic tool.

Fang16 12-17-2018 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 64nailhead (Post 4642905)
Define how to check the proportioning valve - lol. I've gone through a 'centering process' with it a couple of times with no avail.

I mentioned previously that I have no experience tearing apart proportioning valves, but I believe that I'm getting closer to getting some experience.

To see if sufficient pressure is at the connection of hard-line and flex-line. If sufficient pressure is not there then it is either the proportioning valve or the hard-line. If hard-line is suspect take it off at valve and blow through it.

Fang16 12-17-2018 09:54 AM

You may have to take off the master cylinder and see if it is returning to the stop. I have seen new ones bind and not return, but not all the time. If it is not returning it will not feed fluid into the chambers. Make sure there is enough clearance on the brake push rod and enough return spring pressure to bring the pedal back enough also.


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