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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:25 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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My thing is, I always want the pressure on the car to match what it will have on the wheels. But if you have the bracing all removed that is very likely going to bend it as you suggest. Just keep measuring to be sure it's ok is about all you can do. But realistically with all the supports removed, the game changes. Being supported at the rockers is just fine on the unibody it's how any unibody is clamped to a frame rack, and it will be fine. But you will be trial fitting stuff so you will know where you are at for sure.

Brian


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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2017, 07:44 PM
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Anyone have input on using stinger fiberglass for the nose and rear bumper? Not a lot of info on them out there. I noticed the classic industries pieces aren't he fiberglass ones I wanted!! NPD has the stinger fiberglass pieces as well as ecklers and stinger sells direct at the cheapest price. Btw, I refuse to buy anything from NPD since all their stuff is astronomically high.


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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:32 AM
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Anyone? Any experience with stinger fiberglass? They're saying they sell a ton of the fiberglass firebird front and rear bumper covers with every few complaints. There are few questions on the bumpers and most fit with no modification and seldom is minor modification required. If these pieces are like everything else in my project mine will require major modification -_-

Anyway, does ANYONE have experience with them or know people who do?


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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:37 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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I personally have never seen a fiberglass part that didn't require a bunch of modification to make me happy with the fit and finish.

But you are talking about a bent nail while building a 3 bedroom house relating that bumper fit to what you are doing with that car!


Brian
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2017, 12:13 PM
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Panel and structural panel replacement on 77 firebird trans am

So let me translate for myself and others reading:

I will have to sand and maybe even add some fiberglass in some low areas on the edges, but it's nothing compared to the extensive metal work in currently involved in. Is that what you're saying MARTINSR? Lol


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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
So let me translate for myself and others reading:

I will have to sand and maybe even add some fiberglass in some low areas on the edges, but it's nothing compared to the extensive metal work in currently involved in. Is that what you're saying MARTINSR? Lol


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Yeah

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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2017, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
I guess so. Your shocks connect to the body? Looks like it's just me and you in here. It would be cool if someone who has done this was to stop in and say if you're OK. My theory on bracing is that it gets done before cutting.
I have been following along Guys not making comments. I don't see how anyone can know if he is ok or not. Without the car being braced before it was taken apart or having the door gaps to look at, it seems to me it is all a big guess.

He may be ok, and I hope he is, but I see the potential for this to get real harry.

John
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2017, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
I have been following along Guys not making comments. I don't see how anyone can know if he is ok or not. Without the car being braced before it was taken apart or having the door gaps to look at, it seems to me it is all a big guess.

He may be ok, and I hope he is, but I see the potential for this to get real harry.

John
All he can do is trail fit and trail fit and trail fit.

Brian
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2017, 08:23 AM
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One thing for sure, I don't know if this has been mentioned, don't remember. DO NOT FIT REPRO PARTS TO WHERE THE ORIGINAL WAS MOUNTED THINKING IT'S THE SAME!

Like in the photo below, where the green line is. DO NOT RELY ON THAT FIT. If you are installing a new part that welds on like this, you DO NOT want to trust that the edges of that new part will fit where the old one did. On a late model car with a new part from the manufacturer of the car it can be amazingly close and but even then you would never trust it, you would go by the measurements to mounting holes and that sort of thing, and of course the fit of the bolt on parts like headlights and fenders and such. You would NEVER trust that the edges would fit perfect and everything would be as it was with the old part.



With reproduction parts this is brought to a whole different level and the edges can't even be thought of one tiny bit as a place to "fit" it. You put it in place not even looking at that, but more so looking at the overall fit in place. And then the measuring gets started, hinge bolt holes, that sort of thing. Of course, ideally that is all done before the parts are removed so you have something to go with. If you don't do that before, you still must do it to make both sides the same (or similar, FIT of the bolt on panel is what really matters) or using measurements from another body.

But how that part fits along the edges and that sort of thing means NOTHING, I can't make that clear enough, NO-THING.

This is of course with the knowledge that the adjacent part is straight! OF COURSE this fit means "something" being you need that dance between everything to be right. But you have to look at the overall fit of everything more so than the fit of ONLY that weld on part. Hopefully this makes some sense.

Brian
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2017, 05:46 PM
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Panel and structural panel replacement on 77 firebird trans am

This makes great sense, Brian. Maybe even more so to me being as I am an engineer who works in the automotive spot welding world where stampings are hit on progressive presses and then welded in jigs by robots. I design the locating jigs. I understand how these stampings are cut, where datums are, and how the edges have open tolerances. Of course this is all on cars of today and not of the 70s.

I think your last paragraph hit the nail on the head for my thought process. You guys all told me I should have measured stuff up before cutting, and I agree. That being said, my plan this whole time has been to use "the dance between everything," as you called it.

In previous posts I have referred to this as "multiple constraints." I have to line up on top and back of the rocker with the quarter and outer whee well. I have to line up (touch) side to side with the inner cowl, outer cowl, and floor pan. In the front of the rocker I have another up and down constraint in the roof a-pillar. I'm not building a car from scratch, and with these other panels serving as constraints in the X,Y,and Z directions I don't see how I can be too far off. Maybe I'm in for a rude awakening. I sure hope not. At the very least I will be measuring my PS for a comparison AS WELL AS the donor car that cut the roof from.

Anyway, I'm hoping to start fitment this weekend, and I wanna see if I sure need my wheels. I just want to confirm the process:

1. Install rear end with suspension (subframe with suspension is already on).
2. Install wheels- front and rear.
3. Lower car to rest on its own wheels. I think I will make a 2x4 stand for under each wheel. This way the car can set on its own weight, but still be off the ground more than 6", so I can work under the car for rocker fitment. I see Detroit speed use these "stands" a lot in their project.
4. I think at this point I'll set a preliminary ride height and remove the coil overs from front and rear. I'll replace them with the appropriate length sheet metal bar to mimic the coil overs at ride height. The coil overs in front will surely make the car sit unevenly without an engine in it. I think this angled stance will be deceiving during the fitment process, and ride height has to be set anyway, so this is a great time to set the ride height.
5. Screw full rocker into place and begin the fitment process.


Please go over the process in your head and let me know what I'm missing. If this is the right path, I'm going to drop my wheels and tires off at the local tire place and get them mounted to make this happen this weekend. I once read you should make sure your shop is competent enough to mount reverse step wheels because it can be a bear. Is that true?


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Last edited by Schroeder; 06-08-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2017, 06:02 PM
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Your plan sounds OK to me as far as getting the suspension under it and getting started. When in doubt (as now), you fit the pieces together like they look like they want to go, then measure and correct as needed.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2017, 06:34 PM
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What can I do to make the plan sound awesome?


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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2017, 07:24 PM
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Say that you'll pop a chalk center line on your floor and make some plumb bobs perhaps?
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2017, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
What can I do to make the plan sound awesome?


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Not much.
If your day job is designing spot welding do-das for automotive panels, I'm sure you'll be able to figure this out easily.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Not much.
If your day job is designing spot welding do-das for automotive panels, I'm sure you'll be able to figure this out easily.
The one thing I am concerned about is the setting of the car back on it's wheels. This is a must do when hanging quarters and such but I really have to wonder if it's a good idea on a unibody like this that has been completely disassembled. If it were me it would be clamped to the frame rack or something similar to keep the body from shifting. The forces on the front sub frame going up would have to move that floor a LOT, I am thinking this is a bad idea.

Brian
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