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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2017, 04:54 PM
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Well I spent probably 4.5-5 hours today double checking fit and looking at my seams. I am half tempted to remove all the weld thru primer. I am thinking of welding bare metal flanges to bare metal flanges, thinning my SPI epoxy down, brushing it over my seams so it trickles down into them, and then seam sealing. The weld thru primer test result videos I've been following on youtube seem to indicate that one is much better off getting epoxy down in the seams as opposed to having weld thru in the seams.

Anyway, I also had to repair the floor pan to toe board transition where it meets with the rocker panel. As I mentioned before, I replaced the whole flange on the side of the floor pan. I didn't get this angle exactly right so I had to cut, add metal, and weld a patch in. I can't really get to the back of the welds very well, but I was gonna spray it with whatever epoxy I could get to contact it as its kinda in an internal spot. Good enough?

Here is a picture of what I did today. I have a question that is a bit off topic but relevant to the whole scope of the project; is my weld dressing adequate?

Some beginning pics of the small little piece I added in. Done in TIG.




After stone, cut off wheel, 36grit roloc, and surface finisher pad.






Before you guys totally destroy my weld dress work here I must state that I didn't do THE best I could've here seeing as its on the floor pan. I welded longer strings than I typically do or would ever do on something that shows. I think this caused more shrinking right next to throw weld which in turn left an indented depression against the weld.

Here is a pic of a patch I did on an inner quarter. Not as close-up of a pic, but this shows how I'd typically dress a weld. Done in MIG.


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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
OEM. I can now see the ones I have are packed with bondo on the bottom. I don't know if I'll be repairing these or buying used OEM. Is re-skinning doors worth it?

Does anyone have an EXACT product name and part number of the glue that goes between skins like doors, roofs, and hoods and their inner structures? I'll be needing it for my roof and now MAYBE doors.


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Is re-skinning doors worth it? Thats not a yes or no question, too many variables. It depends on the job.

I like to leave any remaining... what you call glue and I might call flutter foam... on the inner structure and apply a little pile of seam sealer over it for the new skin to rest on. My best experience is with this, it stays soft for a long time:

McKanica - Revolutionary Aerosol Dispensers - Beige Seam Sealer

McKanica #324, beige. Other colors would be fine but I have mostly used tan. If the original glue is all gone, I suggest using a slightly more heavy bodied product such as this, applied with a caulking gun:

3M™ MSP Sprayable Seam Sealer

These are what I have personally achieved satisfactory results with. 2K foams and door skin bonding adhesive are not. I prefer not to use those.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:24 PM
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You'll get the hang of weld dressing, its the welds that need the most work. I am not experienced with TIG therefore unfit to critique. FWIW, the '76 at work needed the same thing with a new floor pan. Didn't meet the rocker.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:27 AM
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I'm learning TIG. I will use it on my cage. I am making myself do these smaller tasks that could quickly and easily be done with MIG in an effort to "train" with TIG for my cage. If I don't take on the learning curve now there is no way the cage welds will be pretty. The main thing with TIG that causes me fits is perfect fitment. It takes so much time, but it's how you get the beautiful welds. Fitment takes WAY more time than welding for me. I sometimes take short cuts on these little patches during fitment because I don't find them to be critical.

Really? Your rockers fit weird here too? That's strange. I thought I just mangled my replacement flange and didn't get it in the factory location. Maybe there is something odd about the rocker? I'm guessing that means I can expect the same thing on the PS. No big deal. It's just an extra step. I don't like not being able to get to the back of the welds for dressing. at least it's in a spot where no one can see.


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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2017, 06:51 PM
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Alright guys, one last check. I did some refining on the floor pan flange to inner rocker fit. I think where I had to re-do the toe board area of the floor pan came to a nice fit with the rocker door post. It came out nice. I'm satisfied right now and in a good mood because I think, what I hope was the final fit up, went well. Here are some pics for you guys to look at. I want your final blessing before I proceed with hanging the door. I'm hoping the rocker will NOT have to come off again. This post will look a lot like some of the last few.

Re-worked toe board area.


Here is a 3mm or so gap between the floor pan flange and the rocker. This is about the front or rear seat mount frame. Even if the flange fit tight against the rocker, it is inaccessible for weld because the seat frame piece is underneath. I was just gonna put a little weld bead here.



This area is the worst. It's in front of the rear wheel well where the floor pan flattens out. It's a 5-5.5 mm gap. The torque box is underneath though, so I can't weld this flange to the inner rocker anyway. Again, I was gonna put a couple weld beads here and fill with seam sealer. Am I setting myself up for rust or problems? I was able to draw the torque box flange up tight to the inner rocker by finally figuring out how to get an impact driver in place to put the screws in. I hadn't done this yet.


The rocker to quarter fit looks better than ever.


Side to side location on the firewall looks good when compared to my roof donor car. Front to front isn't shown, but I compared it to my roof donor car too.


Quarter flange to rocker is about the same.



What do you guys think? Good to proceed?

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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2017, 04:07 AM
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Why does it appear the metal is pointing up beside the #1?
It looks creased upwards.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:48 AM
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Panel and structural panel replacement on 77 firebird trans am

Good eye, pugsy. It does stick up- as in the top flange there is drawn down with screws because it doesn't naturally sit on top of the rocker as one would expect. Without the screws this would probably off the rocker by 3mm if I remember correctly. I mentioned this a few posts ago. What's weird is the inner structure of the quarter is drawn up tight to the top of the rocker with screws. This is just 5" or so back from the picture you're talking about. I didn't bend that inner structure flange much either. Just used a screw. All the other height constraints seem to be met, so this was a bit of a head scratcher for me.


Edit: I should take a fresh pic because this is from a few weeks ago and seems to be a little blurry, but this shows the inner structure flanges interfacing with the rocker. The inner most one that I can't gain any sort of fastening access to was off the rocker by the same 2-3mm as the front, but I have looked, and looked, and looked, and looked some more. There is nothing in the rear of this whole rocker that is stopping it from coming up an additional 2-3mm. I cut places in the beginning that did restrict upward travel.


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Last edited by Schroeder; 08-03-2017 at 05:05 AM.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2017, 07:22 AM
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Pull out the top screws, and using a block of wood, hammer it inwards.
It should rotate clockwise slightly as the bump goes down.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:20 PM
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Pull out the top screws by the pink #1. Then hammer that top part of the flange down to meet the top of the rocker? Or hammer the side flange to meet the top of the rocker?


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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:58 PM
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Pugsy, I think I realized what you meant. Here is the angle I hammered at.



Here's how it looks after moving the top flange over about 2-3mm. It may not look a lot different because the front corner where the side and top flange of the quarter meet is deformed a little, but it did get significantly better.


And here's the inner quarter structure against the rocker. Seems to be 2mm. Once I get the quarter off I hopefully can get to this and I'll draw it down with a screw or long reach clamp. That's the plan anyway.


I also remeasured the gaps between the rocker and the floor pan flange. Both areas actually seem to be 6mm (1/4"). Theyre about an inch long each, and again, there are braces under them that make them inaccessible for plug welding to the inner rocker anyway.

Am I golden?

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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2017, 06:22 PM
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Not sure if you're golden, but your bump problem looks better. I hope you changed locations for the top screws or else they will just shove the metal back into a bump.

Yes, you knocked it exactly how I meant.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:23 PM
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I did change the screw locations. They were shadowed significantly after the bump. I even did a little more bumping after this picture.


Pugs, if not golden, do you have any more suggestions?

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Old 08-04-2017, 03:18 AM
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Sorry, no comments on the fit ups.
I just seen the bump and had to give 2 cents advice on that.

One comment though.
Pull your camera further back. You are one of "those", (ha), that snaps pics too close.
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:57 AM
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Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. A lot of times I realize the pics are close, so you may not be able to orient yourselves to see where they're at on the car. At the same time I'm usually trying to show small little details, so I have to weigh that fact in too. I'll take the pics further away, so you guys can orient yourselves and make sense of the pics.


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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:48 PM
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My wife and I hung the DS door yesterday. I think I hate the job more than the last time every time I do it. What a bear. I've been wrestling with the alignment for a couple hrs altogether. I think it's pretty darn good. Door gap to quarter is 4-5mm all the way down.


The gap along the bottom of the door skin to the rocker panel is 10.5mm in the back and 7mm in the front. If I bring the rear of the door down though I don't think it will look right at the top. Also, I think my body line that extends onto the front fender and quarter is good now too, so I can't disturb that.


So the varying gap between the door skin AND the door skin not being flush with the quarter at the bottom of the door are my two issues. Take a look at this.




So the top of the door skin is flush with the quarter all the way down the door until about 2.5" south of the body line. If I rotate the door in and out about the hinges I can get the bottom to be flush. Of course this makes the top of the door come out and be further out than the quarter.

What do you guys think about the gap with the rocker and this door skin being impossible to make flush to the quarter all the way down? What can I do.

Here's just a little side note I wanted to throw out too. I always thought it was weird that my TA had such a big gap between the rocker and the bottom of the door skin. When I was at good guys in columbus a month ago I was checking door gaps around 2nd gen camaros. They're all about 6-8mm all the way around the door. I looked at the 2-3 2nd gen birds that were there and they too had larger gaps between the skin and the rocker (13mm range) than the skin and the quarter- and larger gaps than their sister camaros. That's just something interesting I noticed and thought I'd share.

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Last edited by Schroeder; 08-06-2017 at 01:13 PM.
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