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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2017, 05:37 AM
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Here is a fantastic video.



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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:05 AM
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Was there rust pitting on those pieces in the vid?
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
Was there rust pitting on those pieces in the vid?

No, just showing what happens with how you prep and stuff.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2017, 05:07 AM
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Pugsy, I've seen that video. It's where I decided that I only needed to sand the ospho off instead of rinse with water and then sand. He has the same good results on the one he rinsed as compared to the one he just sanded. I don't like the idea of pouring water on the panel after treating it for rust. You just won't sell me on that. It's counter productive.

I like the idea of spot blasting. I think this cowl has enough ridges to be strong enough to resist warpage. I should have just got a new panel. They're $140. I'm gonna have all this time and effort into it. I'm just doing all this for practice though I suppose.


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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:00 AM
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Don't be this guy-
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Pugsy, I've seen that video. It's where I decided that I only needed to sand the ospho off instead of rinse with water and then sand. He has the same good results on the one he rinsed as compared to the one he just sanded. I don't like the idea of pouring water on the panel after treating it for rust. You just won't sell me on that. It's counter productive.

I like the idea of spot blasting. I think this cowl has enough ridges to be strong enough to resist warpage. I should have just got a new panel. They're $140. I'm gonna have all this time and effort into it. I'm just doing all this for practice though I suppose.


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You might want to reconsider that statement, Pugsy has forgotten more than some of us know. You can not sand acid out of rust pits. It needs to be rinsed off WHILE IT IS STILL WET and primed with epoxy asap. Pugsy is not trying to sell you on anything but only keep you from making a mistake.

Any remaining acid on the panel will prevent the epoxy from curing and it will not have adhesion. The video was new metal and it was possible to sand it pretty effectively.

John
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:45 PM
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IDJ, hahah. I'm assuming he isn't done fitting his door.


John long, so you recommend the method of spraying on the acid, wiping off the access, allowing to dry, re-activiating by spraying on more acid, rinsing thia coat off with water, and then sanding I'm assuming. I have no problem doing that. Its a couple extra steps that could save me a lot of time, heart ache, and money.

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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:16 PM
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If I gather correctly, the idea is to never let the acid dry. Still learning, but practice is leaning me toward not letting it dry. It only acts on a very thin film of rust. I have come to think of it as a detergent for scrubbing pits. Wire brush works like nothing else for that.

Pugsy and John have been at the rust game a long time and I have only been dealing with it for a few years. I asked about the plates in the vid because I didn't know if maybe there was a part one of the vid about the examples. One day I want to get my hands on the SPI epoxy, I can see its different from the rest.

Hope you don't mind this eye bleach picture because yeah even I don't know whats up with that door in the last one. We do fix a lot of messes. What I have been trying to say about the moldings is that GM cared more about molding alignment than panel gaps. Assembly manuals give moldings priority over panel gaps in some cases. If you line up the doors of a 70-81 F body according to what it looks like without both of those moldings in place, you will have a wide top rear gap to fight plus it will look wrong first time you shut it with trim in place. That is experience talking. A wise man might also fit doors with the new door weatherstrips in place at the very least. Having the latches, roof rail channel (probably what you meant earlier) and drip rail and weatherstrips and moveable glass would be smart and that is also experience saying that. I have put a few cars together, and doors on this grey car was one. I'm never trying to make it difficult, I just know that you are working on an important area of your car. It doesn't have to be like the rest, which may have been rushed.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:11 AM
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Just remember one thing.

Wire wheel the whole panel before scuffing.
If you see dust flying, that is dry acid residue.
You will not get it all off by rinsing.
The wire brush will get into most of the pits as well.

My screw up:
A couple of pics below.
Here is what I found under my nice bubbled up paint job.
I probably believed what I read about the rust "conversion".
I now use the acid as a rust "locator" as it turns it black.
Wire wheeling and spot blasting took care of this. I kept applying acid until it didn't turn black anymore.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2017, 06:45 AM
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Great posts guys. Thank you. IDJ, I've have had it told to me that one shouldn't let the acid dry, but I've also had it told to me that it doesn't matter if the acid is reactivated and thoroughly sanded off.

Pugsy, I really like the acid "locator" mindset!! That's great. I've never seen it mentioned in such a way over on the SPI forums. I'm quite new there though, and I probably missed it. There's a bunch of great knowledge there too.

Pugsy, let me make sure I understand your method up until the point of getting the 80 grit DA sander out.

1. Wash panel with acid.

2. Let panel dry.

3. Re-activiate acid by applying more acid and rinse with water.

4. Allow panel to dry

5. Wire brush panel until dust is not flying.

6. Repeat steps 1 thru 5 until acid application yields NO black spots.

7. Wire wheel last coat of acid off the panel.


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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Great posts guys. Thank you. IDJ, I've have had it told to me that one shouldn't let the acid dry, but I've also had it told to me that it doesn't matter if the acid is reactivated and thoroughly sanded off.

Pugsy, I really like the acid "locator" mindset!! That's great. I've never seen it mentioned in such a way over on the SPI forums. I'm quite new there though, and I probably missed it. There's a bunch of great knowledge there too.

Pugsy, let me make sure I understand your method up until the point of getting the 80 grit DA sander out.

1. Wash panel with acid.

2. Let panel dry.

3. Re-activiate acid by applying more acid and rinse with water.

4. Allow panel to dry

5. Wire brush panel until dust is not flying.

6. Repeat steps 1 thru 5 until acid application yields NO black spots.

7. Wire wheel last coat of acid off the panel.


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Exactly!...
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2017, 08:27 PM
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Panel and structural panel replacement on 77 firebird trans am

I think this is related to my original topic.

Would it be smart to install my cage in the body when I get the rockers complete? I would only do the main hoop, halo, and door bars. I would weld in the down bars that go into the trunk when I set the car on the ground with the rear end in. At this time I would also install the bars that go through the firewall that bolt up to the bars that go down and attach to the subframe by the core support. Basically, right now only do components that are isolated to the body. There is an ease of access factor right now since I can pull the roof.


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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:18 PM
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Sounds logical. All I can offer is that if you plan to use the car at a track, even if only testing not racing, it might be a good idea to consult that place's rule book and be sure to meet those specs or the guidelines set forth by the national association associated with that kind of track. Like SCCA or NHRA or whatever floats your boat.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2018, 06:46 PM
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ROUND 2- PS side

As probably most everyone who will see this knows, I am starting the full rocker on the PS. I had an idea shortly we got done with all the back and forth on my roof and what to do next yesterday...

On the DS I could have done a better job measuring where the stock full rocker was located. This time I thought I could make a "jig" off my car to locate the replacement unit right into place. I thought I could take a piece of angle iron, lay in on top of the factory rocker (where the door normally sits), tack weld some pieces to my subframe connectors, and then to those pieces weld some angle iron bars that reach over to the piece of angle laying on the factory rocker. This locates me vertically.

Now underneath the car I'll weld something coming off the rear frame rails to locate front to back. On the forward end of the rocker panel I might try this too, but it may have to be more for.reference I don't want to trap the new panel in and just cause issues for myself.

I might also try to tack some bars in place that tell me where to go with the new piece up high in the cowl area.

This will get me right where the factory piece was. SPOT ON. From there I can make minor adjustments that may become evident, but I suspect they'll be very minor. This seems like a genius idea! What do you think? Anyone do this?

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Old 04-12-2018, 06:15 PM
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I started welding my "jig" in the car. Vertical location bars are in. There is a bit of side to side adjustment in these too because I'm hugging the channel's edge, but really the floor pan flange is my side to side location as I see it. This is more of a secondary check.

I'll do something similar to this for the front to rear location coming off the rear frame frame an locating the rear end of the rocker. I think this is a really good idea. Am I off base? Seems to take away a lot of the need for very careful measurements.

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