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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2005, 11:45 PM
 
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I have no idea where your coming really coming from on this. The 2K or 3K urethane primers are catalyzed. Laquer will not eat into it once it is cured. I'd certainly NEVER ever use a laquer primer in this day and age.

As to why you'd put laquer finish on top of urethane primer surfacer, if your doing a NCRS top flight Corvette. Or simply want it to look "correct".

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2005, 11:58 PM
 
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PPG K36 is a 2K primer and the tech sheet says nada on the lacquer. Maybe it's and old tech sheet But I wouldn't do it. Just wanted to give an opinion.
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Old 02-05-2005, 08:04 AM
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What the K36 tech sheet was saying (I'm sure, never read one)
Was not to apply the K36 over a lacquer product.

Lacquer paint can be applied over epoxy, 2K primer, urethane clear and will stick to properly sanded and prepped surface.

I helped a shop last year that was doing a 67 vette for show only.
This painter a young guy 35 had never shot lacquer in his life but the owner wanted car finished in lacquer and NOT buffed so it would have the gloss of factory.

We epoxied than applied 2K primer with no blocking as not to change the unevenness of the body (Very important) as primer sanding was done with no block (exception was one repaired area) than epoxied and shot the lacquer.

The above, to answer a previous question why you would use a 2K system and than go back wards with lacquer.
This car was restored to perfection for concourse showing only and although it is now acceptable to use base/clear on a restored vette
for these showings some of the more radical old timers will not hear of it. You won't see this car at a local drive in show.

Something you might find interesting about the vette radicals,
I taught Mike how to restore vettes and this was his 5th major show vette. Mike first called me about this guy and said lacquer and nothing else, I told Mike the first thing to do is make a form up saying due to lacquer etc.etc. no warranty of any kind will be offered for paint work. Could you imagine paying almost $130,000
and happily signing away all guarantees?

Last edited by BarryK; 02-05-2005 at 09:01 AM.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 08:53 AM
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Yes, I am going for the factory look on my 69 Corvette roadster. It will be Daytona Yellow.
I have used lacquer over urethane primer before on Vettes with excellent results. However, I color sand and buff. I have never been able to make lacquer shiny at all after spraying. But, I do shoot in my garage without a spray booth. I had a 66 judged by NCRS that I shot this way and didn't lose any points.
I am not going to have my 69 judged, but I do prefer the color sand/buff look on a corvette and the fact that I can get a perfect looking job that way without using a spraybooth
I am considering using Deltron single stage. I have used it before and it color sands and buffs just like lacquer. However, I noticed PPG doesn't make the DAU that I used to use. It looks like they have replaced it with Concept DCC. Any info on this would be appreciated.
I am going to take your advise and use an epoxy sealer. It's sounds like it makes excellent sense.

Roger
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 09:33 AM
 
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Excellent!!!! Learn new stuff everyday. The tech sheet I have Is for K200. My bad!! Been a paint tech for 18 years and still learning, gotta love it.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 09:40 AM
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You will be happy with the results achieved with concept, I hadn't heard that DAU had been discontinued. Another option would be to use PPG Global DG (direct gloss), Ferrari even uses it. Global is the top of the line in PPG. You could also mix in Global 893 clear 50/50 if you'd like more depth and shine. I'm not sure why you can't get a good shine out of the old laquers, the laquer products I used years ago shined as well as the urethane products I use now-they just didn't hold up as well.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 09:44 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by roger1

I have used lacquer over urethane primer before on Vettes with excellent results. However, I color sand and buff. I have never been able to make lacquer shiny at all after spraying. But, I do shoot in my garage without a spray booth.

*****************************************
Your home booth is best place to spray it!
I won't waste space giving the procedure on the lacquer since most likely no one here will ever need it.
But if one day you are going to do it let me know and I will step by step it for you. Its very simple.
Barry
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 10:20 AM
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Thanks Barry and Baddbob.

I guess my last post wasn't that clear.
I got a beautiful shine with my lacquer jobs, but not without color sanding and buffing. (Check out my 66 Corvette pictures - https://hotrodders.com/gallery/showga...3&ppuser=17782

I just assumed that DAU is discontinued since it is no longer listed on their web site. I'll check out the Global it sounds interesting.
Mixing clear is recommended for just the last coat. If you were going to color sand and buff, would you do 2 coats of the 50/50 mix? Or, is it just better to not use the clear at all in this case?

Thanks, Roger

Last edited by roger1; 02-05-2005 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 02-06-2005, 08:34 AM
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I would do the 50/50 mix on the last two coats, spray two coats of straight color and if covered completely apply two coats of the 50/50 mix. I just like the added depth that the clear adds and it seems to make for easier buffing. I misread your sentence on making laquer shiny by spraying, I always buffed my laquer jobs and thought it was required. For a more correct look you'll probably not want to add clear to the color. Your 66 looks nice, laquer IMO definately has a different look than urethanes.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 09:05 PM
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I agree. If I go the urethane route, I won't add the clear. I am leaning heavily towards the urethane over the lacquer at this point.

Do you recommend using fisheye eliminator when shooting urethane in a home garage? The PPG store guy told me not to use it unless I really need it as it can make a paint job worse.
I've done a couple of single-stage urethane jobs before with just a couple of fisheyes on the entire car so I don't have a big problem with it, but I don't want to have any on this Corvette.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 09:36 PM
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from my understanding of fisheye eliminator, especially if your spraying in your home garage is that once you start using it you cant stop. your adding silicone to the paint so what you are doing is spraying silicone all over your garage or booth because its in the overspray. it might help when you shoot the vette but the more you use it for future projects the more your going to need it because everything in the garage is contaminated. i spray everyday and never use it. just be sure to really clean the surface good with wax and grease and alot of clean, new rags and you'll be fine. i just finished restoring a 61 vette body. not ncrs, that a whole nother ball game there. those guys are nuts (no offense). spend 100,000 on a restoration and then be told your chrome and paint are too shiny. there is a shop down the street that specializes in corvettes and they do alot of the ncrs stuff. they use bc/cc and in all the door jambs and everywhere else its supposed to be flat they use a matte clear.
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Old 02-07-2005, 05:38 AM
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Like the above said don't use it.

How are you coming up with all these wacko paint idea's?

Single stage with clear mixed, than single stage, now lacquer with a urethane clear.
Someone is giving you some real bad advice.
Its a driver, only way to paint it is base/clear
to keep the value up.

If you hate the vette that much sell it to me.

Last edited by BarryK; 02-07-2005 at 06:02 AM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 06:58 AM
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A few years ago I used a system from DuPont on a restored concurs Cadillac. It was called 580s, lacquer with urethane clear.
It looked really good. I don't know if they still have it or not.

Troy
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 09:24 AM
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Barry,
I guess I need to be more careful in the way that I write. Sorry. When I said:

"I am leaning heavily towards the urethane over the lacquer at this point. "

I meant that I am not going to use lacquer on the car. I am going to shoot it with single-stage urethane. I had been wavering on which way to go.


I thank you guys for all of your help. I have really gotten some good advice in this thread. My final decision is to use Evercoat's polyester primer sealed with PPG Epoxy and PPG single-stage urethane (without the 50/50 mix of clear). I will keep adding pictures in my gallery.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 09:45 PM
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Don't use the fisheye eliminator. The fisheye eliminator is just a contaminant to enable the paint to flow over the contaminants on your car. Drain your compressor good and clean your water traps/oil seperators well before spraying, and clean the car really well with a prepaint cleaner. If you end up with a couple of fisheyes in the job when done spraying just take the paint left over in your gun and a small brush and dab them so they fill and you'll be set when it's time to colorsand and buff-they will be invisable. Most fisheye eliminators contain silicone and once you use it on a job every coat will need it, the stuff messes up the dry time as well. And the overspray in your spray area will continue to contaminate future jobs for quite awhile. I remember years ago helping a friend spray a job very late at night and the surface of the car was contaminated from something which created major fisheyes, no fisheye eliminator to try so he walked in the house and came back with some spray on furniture wax and sprayed some right in the paint! Then we started spraying again and the paint flowed like glass. The car was a beater so the name of the game was to just get it done, the furniture wax saved the day. I sparyed a car once with laquer that was spiked with airtool oil from a disgruntled employee. The paint flowed like unreal, nice and smooth, just couln't figure out why it seemed to have an oily look to it and blamed it on the hand glaze I was using only to find out later what the jerk had done. Ramble, ramble, Anyways-stay away from the fisheye eliminator IMO. Bob
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