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Old 12-09-2008, 07:39 PM
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Questions about these heads

I was looking through e-bay and ran across this guy selling Dart Pro 1 Platinum SBC heads for a very reasonable price assembled. Ebay Dart Heads Looking at his feedback he has 100% and has been a member of e-bay for some years, but my question is, are there some things a novice such as myself should be aware of, or questions I should ask him about these heads b4 shelling out any cash for them. The description of the heads say they are assembled using PBM performance parts. I was looking at either the 200 or 215 intake runner. Engine is 406, 286 roller comp cam w/air-gap intake.

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Old 12-09-2008, 08:47 PM
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The 180 heads might be a better choice. They outflow the 200 through 0.400" lift and the 215 through 0.500" lift according to figures published by MBE Cylinder Heads and Manifolds. 180, 200 and 215 testing was done on a 4.030" cylinder bore. 230 testing was done on a 4.125" cylinder bore.
Lift........180..........200..........215......... .230
0.200"..134/114...129/114....127/114....129/115
0.300"..187/145...185/145....178/145....184/158
0.400"..231/164...229/164....216/164....231/185
0.500"..257/172...261/172....249/172....271/199
0.550"..259/173...252/173....264/173....288/202
0.600"..261/174...252/174....278/174....296/205
0.650"............................................ ..301/207
0.700............................................. ..308/207
It's kinda wierd how the 200 head jumped flow from 0.400" to 0.500" and then stalled back at 0.550".
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Old 12-10-2008, 07:17 AM
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Thanks! Tech, thats some good info...If possible would you post the link to the website so I can look over it too. I'm always looking to expand my knowledge on this kinda stuff. Now if you've looked over the link that I posted. Does this seem like a good head with no funny business.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:29 AM
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Gosh, I don't know how they do it. I thought maybe the heads were seconds or blems, but the last sentence in their ad says no. Apparently they buy just the castings, then assemble with their own purchased components. Maybe they're getting a long deal on the components or the components they're using just don't cost as much as what Dart uses to assemble the heads. Don't know. Anyway, it looks to me like a fair deal on a set of aluminum heads.
http://www.mbeperformance.com/docume...%20PRO1SBC.pdf
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Old 12-10-2008, 12:49 PM
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heads

I can sell those heads at about the same price (within $25.00), but I won’t. When you’re in the trade you can get kit deals from your warehouses. The problem is in how well the machine shop preps them. Knowing what he pays for the kit and seeing what he is selling them for I would say the prep is bare minimum. That is why I would not sell them for that price. While IMO the Dart Pro ones are about the best deal for the dollar out there in a performance head, they do have issues with there valve jobs. I am guessing he is just touching the seats and that’s about it. That will let a lot of performance on the table.

When you start stepping up in the heads to the roller springs, I feel some of the parts in the kits are not as good as needed. There I will just by bare heads and add the parts I need to make a quality head…

Can he buy the kit, snap them together and make them run??? YES. Is it the best way to go with a performance head??? Not IMO…

Keith
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
I can sell those heads at about the same price (within $25.00), but I won�t. When you�re in the trade you can get kit deals from your warehouses. The problem is in how well the machine shop preps them. Knowing what he pays for the kit and seeing what he is selling them for I would say the prep is bare minimum. That is why I would not sell them for that price. While IMO the Dart Pro ones are about the best deal for the dollar out there in a performance head, they do have issues with there valve jobs. I am guessing he is just touching the seats and that�s about it. That will let a lot of performance on the table.

When you start stepping up in the heads to the roller springs, I feel some of the parts in the kits are not as good as needed. There I will just by bare heads and add the parts I need to make a quality head�

Can he buy the kit, snap them together and make them run??? YES. Is it the best way to go with a performance head??? Not IMO�

Keith
Okay K-Star, so in your honest opinion how much more $$$ would be needed to make this a good head...Which then in turn makes it not so much of a good deal.
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Old 12-10-2008, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Everything K-Star says about these heads is true. Ya you can get a head in a box for $1000 or so but realize that you get what you pay for.
Dart cylinder heads have always been a "engine builders head" meaning that they work best when prepared by an experienced head guy that puts a bit of time and effort into them. When done right they flow a lot more than what has been shown. The valve job is very critical.
That being said, you/he can build a kick *** street/strip head starting with the bare Platinum 215cc castings for a 406 with a hyd roller.
The details matter.
Okay, when you say "a bit of time and effort into them" how much more $$$ err effort are we talking about or I guess more specifically what needs to be done...Like I said before if it comes up to $1,500 or $1,600 hundred bucks then its not a good deal anymore and I could have just gotten something else...So I guess my question would be if I got this head and took it to an experienced head builder what exactly should I ask him to do to them? With out breaking the bank....completely....
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olds86
Okay, when you say "a bit of time and effort into them" how much more $$$ err effort are we talking about or I guess more specifically what needs to be done...Like I said before if it comes up to $1,500 or $1,600 hundred bucks then its not a good deal anymore and I could have just gotten something else...So I guess my question would be if I got this head and took it to an experienced head builder what exactly should I ask him to do to them? With out breaking the bank....completely....
Pricing is tough. Every part of the country charges something different.

Do you have a automotive machine shop that you deal with now??

What is the application?? drag race only, street/strip, street only???

The level of detail the guy puts into the head is going to determine price.

As an example, in my shop first thing is to size the guides, straight and round. Now what if the brand new head has a guide say .001 larger then the clearance i want to run. Most shops will use them. i prefer to fix it.

Then the valve job..... I try to get my seats to run less the .002" That don't happen in most shop with there equipment.

So i would ask the guy, do you size the guides??? How do you cut the seats, or have you ever checked seat run-out???

Get back to us with his answers and we can go from there...

A basic Pro-One head out of my shop, with the above mentioned work runs around $1500 to start. That does not include any port work at all...

Keith
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
Pricing is tough. Every part of the country charges something different.

Do you have a automotive machine shop that you deal with now??

What is the application?? drag race only, street/strip, street only???

The level of detail the guy puts into the head is going to determine price.

As an example, in my shop first thing is to size the guides, straight and round. Now what if the brand new head has a guide say .001 larger then the clearance i want to run. Most shops will use them. i prefer to fix it.

Then the valve job..... I try to get my seats to run less the .002" That don't happen in most shop with there equipment.

So i would ask the guy, do you size the guides??? How do you cut the seats, or have you ever checked seat run-out???

Get back to us with his answers and we can go from there...

A basic Pro-One head out of my shop, with the above mentioned work runs around $1500 to start. That does not include any port work at all...

Keith
Yeah there is a shop that I've dealt with b4, but they've only done one set of heads for me and that was your basic Vortec head. I'm no expert, but I think they did good for the work needed....Not drag, street/strip...I'll have to give the place a call when I get a chance and see what his answers to those questions are that you gave me. So I guess my next question is, is there really a such thing as a bolt on out of the box head, seems like everything that claims BOLT ON out of the box really isn't, and if you know whats good you better have'em check out b4 installation.
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