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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2018, 11:57 PM
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What I said is correct! You break off the metallic when you color sand single stage metallic, it is not meant to be color sanded. I see it right away! Single stage solid colors can be color sanded and buffed. To the average person, it may not be so noticeable, but it is very clear to me, immediately noticeable. It is not a quality job! But hey, I am a perfectionist and my paint jobs start at a minimum of 10k. I only have 40+ years experience in high-end custom paint, so I am sure you know more than me since you owned a body shop for three years. LOL! BTW they had 2-stage back in the 80's! There was 2-stage on some cars in the 50's! Body shops use single stage to move cars through faster. That is half a** to use to us who do quality work. Low quality shops use single stage because it is cheap and quick, they try to get away with it to save time and money. Custom paint shops always use 2 or 3 stage to do a quality paint jobs! We have pride is our work and do everything properly! No short cuts!

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2018, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by aicsusa View Post
What I said is correct! You break off the metallic when you color sand single stage metallic, it is not meant to be color sanded. I see it right away! Single stage solid colors can be color sanded and buffed. To the average person, it may not be so noticeable, but it is very clear to me, immediately noticeable. It is not a quality job! But hey, I am a perfectionist and my paint jobs start at a minimum of 10k. I only have 40+ years experience in high-end custom paint, so I am sure you know more than me since you owned a body shop for three years. LOL! BTW they had 2-stage back in the 80's! There was 2-stage on some cars in the 50's! Body shops use single stage to move cars through faster. That is half a** to use to us who do quality work. Low quality shops use single stage because it is cheap and quick, they try to get away with it to save time and money. Custom paint shops always use 2 or 3 stage to do a quality paint jobs! We have pride is our work and do everything properly! No short cuts!
I don't know man Standox and Sikkens make some bad *** single stage. Standox's black is the blackest I've ever seen and looks absolutely amazing and miles deep sanded and buffed. Totally blows a 2 stage job away. Sikkens autocryl is not far behind. Not saying I would do a metallic in it but there's something to be said for a well executed black or a pretty red in a high end single stage where the color hasn't been buried under clear. Unless you were told you'd never know it was single stage. For sake of simplicity single stage is basically colored clear, but what do I know, I'm not getting 10k to paint a car using 5 star clear or calling my self a custom painter either.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2018, 06:48 AM
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Clearcoated single stage solids look extra nice too. Due to build that isn't there with basecoat. But man... am I glad I checked out of this technical conversation pages ago! Single stage metallics just aren't something I would recommend to anyone but thats just me. OP doesn't seem to have any qualms about using it though.
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:54 AM
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Thanks, I will.
I know I can't use Urethane over lacquer, once I resigned myself to the fact I was going to do it all over I got what I wanted this time instead of what was local so I will be sanding back down to the primer.

I tried to fix it and I did a good job on the hood but there are a few burn through spots and I am just fed up.
But I will post a new thread once I spray a few test pieces in a couple weeks.
Waiting for the paint and I leave the country next week so not much time to do anything.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:28 AM
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I don't know man Standox and Sikkens make some bad *** single stage. Standox's black is the blackest I've ever seen and looks absolutely amazing and miles deep sanded and buffed. Totally blows a 2 stage job away. Sikkens autocryl is not far behind. Not saying I would do a metallic in it but there's something to be said for a well executed black or a pretty red in a high end single stage where the color hasn't been buried under clear. Unless you were told you'd never know it was single stage. For sake of simplicity single stage is basically colored clear, but what do I know, I'm not getting 10k to paint a car using 5 star clear or calling my self a custom painter either.
I agree, with single stage solid colors you can color sand and buff. I said that! But he had metallic on his car, so trying to stick to the thread, I was responding about metallic colors mostly, although I did say you can buff out solid single stage. I still think 2-stage is much better looking than any single stage, or at least mine are! You cant get the depth with single stage no matter what you do that you can get with 2 or 3-stage. If you clear over single stage, then it is no longer single stage. Also I like to use pearls doing very subtle ghosted highlights etc in some of my mid coats or early clears. You don't notice it until the light hits it just right and all of a sudden you wonder where is that fantastic color coming from! Can't do that with single stage! For a body shop trying to save time and money single stage can work ok in many cases. I just can't do that quality of work, I am to picky. I am not going to disassemble a car and use crappy low budget single stage and feel right about it. I have much more pride in my work!

I use the 5 star for personal flips! I didn't say I use it for custom jobs! But is does compare to the best clears out there, for me, when I spray it. But this comment about 5-star comes from a guy who can't paint 2-stage better than single stage, so that comment is completely irrelevant.

If you are not getting better quality 2 stage jobs than single stage, then you need a little help there man!

There is no way you can get more depth in a single stage over a 2-stage! Not possible! No way! I am sure you see cows flying overhead too when you say that! Good fairy tale! If this was possible, then we would all be using this miracle paint, including all the high-end manufactures like Lamborghini and Ferrari who use a lot of solid colors (red and black). But now use mostly metallic's, as all manufactures do now. Nice try buddy! Someone has been inhaling paint fumes to long on that one! :-)

Thanks for your input! Even though it is mostly not correct! I would suggest you get some fresh air before your next reply to clear you head!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:06 PM
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2 stage is indeed far better/ deeper gloss and better at everything. However in general also doubles the price even for cheaper stuff, which the guy just wants one color and to look decent. Eastwood paint is made by Kirker and is good paint, as is the Restoration shop paint which was created by EX PPG employee's IIRC.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2018, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aicsusa View Post
What I said is correct! You break off the metallic when you color sand single stage metallic, it is not meant to be color sanded. I see it right away! Single stage solid colors can be color sanded and buffed. To the average person, it may not be so noticeable, but it is very clear to me, immediately noticeable. It is not a quality job! But hey, I am a perfectionist and my paint jobs start at a minimum of 10k. I only have 40+ years experience in high-end custom paint, so I am sure you know more than me since you owned a body shop for three years. LOL! BTW they had 2-stage back in the 80's! There was 2-stage on some cars in the 50's! Body shops use single stage to move cars through faster. That is half a** to use to us who do quality work. Low quality shops use single stage because it is cheap and quick, they try to get away with it to save time and money. Custom paint shops always use 2 or 3 stage to do a quality paint jobs! We have pride is our work and do everything properly! No short cuts!
I definitely am a novice. Did not intend to sound like I thought I knew it all. I'm deeply sorry if I sounded that way. Most of the cars I painted in the short time that I had my body shop were pre-80's. Back in the depressed area I lived in, complete paint jobs went for $350.oo if no color change and no body work. Charge more than, and you may as well not unlock the door. Very competitive. Dealership mechanics were paid $6.oo an hour.

The car that I did that had a previous two stage paint job that gave me fits, I bid at $600.oo and just barely matched a competitor's bid. With the different sealers and primers I bought trying to get the previous clear coat to quit reacting, I did little better than break even. my Ditzler paint jobber assured me that epoxy primer wouldn't react, it did. Enamel primer wasn't supposed to react, it did.

A Ditzler monthly magazine that I used to get, highlighted a paint shop that did Rols Royce and such, with activated acrylic enamel and let them set for two weeks and then color sanded and buffed.

Maybe I was just lucky with the metallic single stage paints that I color sanded and buffed.

I envy you guys that do the custom work. With my back the way it is, I'm doing good to get out of bed some mornings. My hat is off to you. Allan
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