To replace or not to replace: roof skin on 77 Trans an - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 09:24 AM
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Thanks for he info. As usual, expense is making me steer away from the good stuff (black beauty). It looks like it's $1/lb. I have to drive further to get it too. With how well sand works I'll just stick with it and take precautions so as not to inhale it. I'm glad I found out about the dangers of it. I've sand blasted a couple times and never taken any precautions to avoid inhalation.


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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 09:40 AM
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I buy it at tractor supply...$8 for 50 lbs.

I also use a 12X20 tarp under the work area and reclaim it by sifting back into the blaster/pails. 50#'s will last a long time that way.

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Gosh I love this forum. I get anders almost as quickly as picking up the phone and calling someone!!

Anyway, yea, I think I will blast the inner roof structure. I think I'll have to strip the underside of the roof skin with various grinding and sanding pads. While DPI doesn't really "like" ospho under their epoxy, they say that if you use it, reactivate it after it dries, and then rinse it off with water you should be fine. I of course err on the side of not taking risks, but being as this is the under side of the roof and in a place where not even I will see it, much less anyone else, I think I would try the ospho treatment. That being said, is this kind of rust where one would use OSPHO? I see threads about people using it on "surface rust," but I don't know what that ever is and how severe it is. So the question stands; is this dark rust, that seems to be below the surface, something that I should destroy with OSPHO? Yes, grinding and wire wheeling would probably take care of it, but being as these skins are 20ga (.033"-.037"), I hesitate to keep grinding more and more meat away.

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Being that its on the roof I wouldn't even worry about epoxy priming the inner structure if you use ospho, that alone will not only remove the rust but it'll seal it up and keep it from rusting again. As you can see it never had any primer at all from the factory and it lasted quite a while. The deeper rust will need going over a second time after it all dries with a wire wheel and ospho reapplied a second time. rust wont come back and you can weld through treated metal easily.
If you really want to epoxy it then a good scuffing with a red pad will be good enough just wipe it good after wards with a water born W&G remover Rinsing with water is a good idea for other areas of the car but not that part
I don't know who you talked to about the primer reactivating the ospho THATS a new one one on me and makes no sense at all.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 09:56 AM
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Deadbodyman, I'm slow, so ur post confused me a little bit. Let me just iterate what I plan on doing: I have sanded, brushed, and ground the surface primer and rust away. I will ospho the surfsce, let it dry, reactive with more ospho, rinse, wire wheel/sand the area, do another coat of ospho, let it dry, reactive with more ospho, and rinse it off. At this point I will epoxy primer with my white spi epoxy. Do you guys think that's a dolid, rust - preventative plan? I plan on the final surface just being the white epoxy. I will probably seal it with the reduced epoxy too. When I get to painting and learning all that stuff I'm sure I'll be posting here a lot. Bits of the underside of the roof skin may show thru the inner roof structure since I'm not positive I'll had a headliner in the car. I'll have a cage, and guy say you can get a headliner in and out with a cage, but I'm not sure I believe that. Point being, I want it to look finished and nice in case it shows.

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Deadbodyman, I'm slow, so ur post confused me a little bit. Let me just iterate what I plan on doing: I have sanded, brushed, and ground the surface primer and rust away. I will ospho the surfsce, let it dry, reactive with more ospho, rinse, wire wheel/sand the area, do another coat of ospho, let it dry, reactive with more ospho, and rinse it off. At this point I will epoxy primer with my white spi epoxy. Do you guys think that's a dolid, rust - preventative plan? I plan on the final surface just being the white epoxy. I will probably seal it with the reduced epoxy too. When I get to painting and learning all that stuff I'm sure I'll be posting here a lot. Bits of the underside of the roof skin may show thru the inner roof structure since I'm not positive I'll had a headliner in the car. I'll have a cage, and guy say you can get a headliner in and out with a cage, but I'm not sure I believe that. Point being, I want it to look finished and nice in case it shows.

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Sounds like a good plan.
Scuff well after rinsing.
Try a wire wheel in a drill when you think you're done. If you see dust flying off, it's the last haze from the acid. Then scuff with 80 grit, W&G remover, primer.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 12:29 PM
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Me again. I have a couple questions now that you have your rust treatment decided.

Will you apply this process to the remaining hidden areas of the body and bolt-on panels?

Are you including your labor in the $100,000 estimate? If so, at what rate?
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Sounds like a good plan.
Scuff well after rinsing.
Try a wire wheel in a drill when you think you're done. If you see dust flying off, it's the last haze from the acid. Then scuff with 80 grit, W&G remover, primer.


I thought rinsing took the acid off. I have to scuff and wire wheel after rinsing?

Time is not in the $100k estimate. I just downloaded an app to keep track of time and am doing so. Idk what my time is worth. $40/hr??


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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Time is not in the $100k estimate. I just downloaded an app to keep track of time and am doing so. Idk what my time is worth. $40/hr??
No idea on that. From what I have read here, the consensus is that it should be disregarded entirely. Nice dodge on the other Q. I'll leave you be now.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I thought rinsing took the acid off. I have to scuff and wire wheel after rinsing?

Time is not in the $100k estimate. I just downloaded an app to keep track of time and am doing so. Idk what my time is worth. $40/hr??


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Try the wire wheel when you believe it's clean.
Maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

But I am sure of one thing. It doesn't hurt to check.

Edit: I've had dust fly 100% of the time I checked.
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Old 04-02-2017, 04:14 PM
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To replace or not to replace: roof skin on 77 Trans an

Sorry, I didn't dodge. I just forgot to address. Thanks for the reminder.

Most every other panel is new on the car- complete rockers, quarters, everything. I'll probably scuff up the EDP coating on everything that's new and epoxy the insides. I don't trust the EDP entirely though, so on outside surfaces that have he costing I am going to take down to bare metal. Isn't this the best course of action? The inside of the cowl will be original metal. It is solid, so I will scuff it up good with stripper discs and epoxy it. This roof is thin metal and I didn't know the history of it. That's why it's getting so much attention.

Your question calls to mind something else I need help on; how do you guys epoxy the insides of rockers? I know Eastwood has some spray wand kit with paint or something rather. Is this the best option? What have you guys done?


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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2017, 05:19 PM
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Cool, that sounds pretty nice. On the inside of rockers and such... Personally I'd suggest looking into 3M Rust Fighter products, theres a nice wand for application and I think if you check that stuff out, you'll like the idea. European cars rely on that type of product heavily. Basically a fog of wax and oil clings to all sides of a cavity.
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Old 04-06-2017, 05:50 PM
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Having a heck of a time hammer and dollying a couple dents in the roof out. Seems like I can't get them down. When I really start wailing on them my hammer misses the dolly and I get a ding in the roof skin. Do I h have to cut these and TIG em up or something?

https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58e6c68e...06_184837.jpg?

https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58e6c6c7...06_184854.jpg?


They almost seem like they're stretched. Idk if in got them hot? I can push them down with my thumb, they make a DING sound and pop right back out

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Last edited by Schroeder; 04-06-2017 at 05:57 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2017, 06:07 PM
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Hammer on dolly stretches the metal and gives you that "oil can" effect you describe. I have a shrinking disc that heats the high spot and then i spray it with water immediately to shrink it again. You can do that with a soft o/a torch tip too, but to me, it's more difficult to control the heat.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:50 PM
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Thanks too many projects. I got my torch out. It's way too big for this kind of work. I just touched the metal and a huge bubble rose. Hammered it down. I sort of missed the problem spot and had to do this 2 more times. Each time I dialed the torch down and did much better. Now there doesn't seem to be any high spots. There are a couple low spots around the areas I heated that I can't seem to get out, but they're small. They also aren't very deep. They may be 1/16" deep at MOST. Is this good enough to catch with a skim coat? I'm not after "good enough," but I don't want to keep heating up areas and just expanding the problem area or tear the metal. When do I stop? Here are some pics after the fix and then after I took a surface conditioner disc to the area to clean up some of the rough look from hammering and torching.

This pic is at an angle where I'm trying to show thay there is still a slight imperfection, but it is now down below the surface. The area is at the end of the dolly.


Again, another angled shot trying to get the light to catch the imperfections. It was tough to do so. The pink dots are a few mm away from the areas.


Is this "good enough?"

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2017, 09:05 PM
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Thanks hcompton. I'll take as a "yes, it's good enough." Haha I personally think so too, but maybe someone else will have some differing opinions.

Yeah, I'm not afraid to try the stuff I read on he internet and stuff I learn from you guys. From working on this car for several years by now I have learned that anything can be fixed. It may take more time and money, but it can be fixed. With that in mind I will try anything.


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