To replace or not to replace: roof skin on 77 Trans an - Page 6 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 05:55 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
Purists Hate Me
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: SEAM SEALER
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 58
Posts: 4,184
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 8,618
Thanked 3,973 Times in 2,266 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
I have never tried a shrinking disc. You may have missed another suggestion from before those came up.
I'm all ears, ready to learn something new.
But I'm too lazy to go back and search.
Fill us in please.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 05:55 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
To replace or not to replace: roof skin on 77 Trans an

Thanks for the tip idrivejunk. I took ur post as a cryptic hint to go review the thread lol, and I think you're reminding me to try the mig welding technique to heat very small areas and then shrink. Did I get it right!? I suppose I could try it. I'd like to stay away from grinding weld on the roof skin down, but heck, at this point it doesn't seem so risky after taking a huge ***** oxy/acetelyne torch to it.

Something about the shrinking disc seems like it'd be worth a try. Won't ANY method I choose require a lot of good hammer and dolly work after the heat is applied?


Pugsy, I'm not too lazy to go back and search. I totally forgot some of these methods were mentioned, that's all. After being promoted to do so, I did go back and search. Thanks for the reminder guys!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 05:58 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
Purists Hate Me
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: SEAM SEALER
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 58
Posts: 4,184
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 8,618
Thanked 3,973 Times in 2,266 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I was reading some old threads here on hot rodders and this shrinker disc was recommended:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112328122734

The old threads said that the 4.5" one was too small and localized. They also said this seller deserves the business for whatever the reason. However, price is a big selling point for me and this 9" disc seems to be the exact same thing and is ~$11 cheaper than the link above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/220792084299

Would I be better served to just buy this rather than screw around making my own that won't have a perfect shape? I'm thinking so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have Wray Schelin's disc and it's a nice piece.
Don't know about the other brand.

You'll need a 7" grinder minimum to run these things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Yea, from reviewing old threads it seems he consensus is that the small ones don't work as well because they're too localized. Why is that? I would think that, typically, you'd WANT to keep it localized? Maybe I missed the old thread that explained this in my searching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:16 AM
idrivejunk's Avatar
Grand Prix User
 

Last journal entry: Last look
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NW AR, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 4,216
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4,781
Thanked 5,700 Times in 3,330 Posts
Reading things more than once can pay off, you found it without me saying post #57. I wasn't trying to be "cryptic" and am not fit to enlighten anyone concerning metal work. I do think its worth re-stating that you should be practicing on scrap, and that I have seen a MIG weld (done on the proper side of the metal) restore proper tension to overworked areas in large panels before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #81 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
To replace or not to replace: roof skin on 77 Trans an

I know you weren't trying to be cryptic, I was making light of and making fun of myself a bit for missing your previous suggestion.

Anyway, I did see where you suggested using a test piece before the actual work is done, and of course I had planned on this. I'll give it a whirl.

Anyone have more suggestions or experiences with the shrinking hammer? I'd like to order one today maybe. They're like $40. That's do-able.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #82 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:24 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,463 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I was reading some old threads here on hot rodders and this shrinker disc was recommended:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112328122734

The old threads said that the 4.5" one was too small and localized. They also said this seller deserves the business for whatever the reason. However, price is a big selling point for me and this 9" disc seems to be the exact same thing and is ~$11 cheaper than the link above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/220792084299

Would I be better served to just buy this rather than screw around making my own that won't have a perfect shape? I'm thinking so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Im a lot like you "FRUGAL" although others have a different word "cheapass" so I know making one is my first thought any time I need something. One thing I've learned is you need to know how to operate the tool and know how it works before you can make one of anything. so buy a shrinking disc first get used to using it THEN go ahead and make one from the bottom of a dog food dish or from scratch if you like. for a couple bucks they are a deal. and a good handy tool. or you can do what most body men would doget your pic hammer and an old socket and shrink the metal by stretching it. That's right stretching it, all you have to do is make the high spots high the other way.(high on the inside instead of on the outside) by using the pic or even a center punch you hammer the mountain down into a crater and fill it. Things would be much easier if you have the skin epoxied and welded down. An oil can is just stretched metal there is usually a high ridge around the area, push the spot until its at its lowest spot and the ridge will show up you can use a long block with some 80 to find it. this ridge needs to be pecked down with the pic. what your trying to do is metal working when you should be body working. its like crawling before you walk. you need some experience with seeing how metal moves over and over before you can really get the hang of metal work. Sure its a breeze for us, all we have to do is walk up to it and give it a look and the dents pop right out as we reach for a hammer. but we've been at this a while. its tough to learn without someone right there showing you. don't be afraid to beat something into submission either lets face it your not a pro so why expect it to look like a pros work. beat it and fill it worry about the finessing it flush later. when you gain some experience. You expect too much from yourself. weld that sucker down and epoxy it. Guide coat it and long block it, fill the lows and beat down the highs. it'll look like someone with 10 years exp. did it.
don't worry nothing will crack, that is, IF your epoxy sticks to the ospho treated metal. BTW, bondo don't like Ospho and just might not want to stick either so get some epoxy on there and see how that goes, then move on to the body work or metal finishing.

Last edited by deadbodyman; 04-15-2017 at 06:39 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #83 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
To replace or not to replace: roof skin on 77 Trans an

Yes we have been at this awhile and yes ur right I expect a lot. I figure I can get the perfect results I want, it'll just take WAY longer than I'd like. But maybe your right, maybe I just need to bite the highs down and fill. Which sort of filler do I need to use for a flimsy roof skin though? Suppose I'll do some research on that. With roofs being flimsy and sometimes taking a push on them since these cars are so low and people can lean on them, I don't want the roof to take weight near bondo, flex, and crack.

Before I keep going around and circles any longer on this thread and go try the MIG and shrinking discs, I have a question, how high is too high? How high can a tiny dent stick up? Basically? What will all my coats of paint and 2k primer and body work over up? Any rule of thumb to go by?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #84 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:48 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,463 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Yes we have been at this awhile and yes ur right I expect a lot. I figure I can get the perfect results I want, it'll just take WAY longer than I'd like. But maybe your right, maybe I just need to bite the highs down and fill. Which sort of filler do I need to use for a flimsy roof skin though? Suppose I'll do some research on that. With roofs being flimsy and sometimes taking a push on them since these cars are so low and people can lean on them, I don't want the roof to take weight near bondo, flex, and crack.

Before I keep going around and circles any longer on this thread and go try the MIG and shrinking discs, I have a question, how high is too high? How high can a tiny dent stick up? Basically? What will all my coats of paint and 2k primer and body work over up? Any rule of thumb to go by?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You CANT put filler on flimsy metal. once you peck down the ridge the metal stiffens up. As you peck the ridge down push the center with your finger to see if its stiffening up. something else, before you weld you should put some blobs of the special foam like glue the holds down the roof skins and hoods to the inner structure
that'll make a big difference too. this should all be done before you get started with the filler work. Glue it , weld it , prime it , guide coat and long block it to find the highs and lows , THEN hammer and dolly and filler. I personally like Z grip as my filler.
BTW, anything above flush is TOO high. lows are ok to fill and prime, just how low you want go depends on you. peck those highs down and check how far with a sanding block if they pop up again hammer them again your pic needs to be sharp not as sharp as a pencil more like a sharpie. you don't want to pound a hole in it.

Last edited by deadbodyman; 04-15-2017 at 06:55 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #85 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:54 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
DBM, I have been doing all this work on the skin while it's on my welding table so I can access both sides. Once I weld it in the inner roof structure will be under it, and I won't be able to get a dolly on the back side.

Yes, I know I need to put the glue in place to hold the skin tight, high, rigid, and separated from the roof. I have seen some discussions on this and what product should actually be used. I never saw a bullet proof product mentioned for this in the research I have done at this point, but I have seen some people used windshield sealant because it gets pretty hard, but at the same time it's slightly flexible- a desired quality in this area since the roof may be expanding and contracting some as it may sometimes soak up the heat of the sun. Without this quality I have seen discussions that you may end up seeing ghosted images of the glue dots after many hot sun baths.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #86 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 07:01 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,463 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I know you weren't trying to be cryptic, I was making light of and making fun of myself a bit for missing your previous suggestion.

Anyway, I did see where you suggested using a test piece before the actual work is done, and of course I had planned on this. I'll give it a whirl.

Anyone have more suggestions or experiences with the shrinking hammer? I'd like to order one today maybe. They're like $40. That's do-able.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
forget the shrinking hammers. You need the dolly also and although I have them I hardly ever use them, I'm always glad I have them on the rare occasion when I need one, and they to require a learning curve. Get the disc. You wont be disappointed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #87 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 07:19 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,463 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
Reading things more than once can pay off, you found it without me saying post #57. I wasn't trying to be "cryptic" and am not fit to enlighten anyone concerning metal work. I do think its worth re-stating that you should be practicing on scrap, and that I have seen a MIG weld (done on the proper side of the metal) restore proper tension to overworked areas in large panels before.
That's true the mig is a good heat source, you can do a few tacks on the inside and quinch to shrink streached metal but do it from the inside and NOT with the skin off , it needs to be welded on or it could warp all over the place. You may have already warped the piece out of it. So prime it and place the skin on the car (just before welding) and block it to be sure. follow the steps I laid out and stop worrying, you'll get it later. The first thing you want to do is GET THAT SKIN WELDED ON. clean it up, prime both sides and the inner structure and start welding before you do damage that cant be fixed or drop the dam thing putting it on and taking it off a hundred million times. concentrate on the small job at hand NOT everything all at once. we know where your going and where you'll end up let us worry about that. You only have to worry about cleaning the metal and getting it primed. then when your ready to weld it on we'll explain THAT ,your 2-3 steps ahead of yourself. go back to the beginning and start over.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #88 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 08:50 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
Purists Hate Me
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: SEAM SEALER
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 58
Posts: 4,184
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 8,618
Thanked 3,973 Times in 2,266 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I know you weren't trying to be cryptic, I was making light of and making fun of myself a bit for missing your previous suggestion.

Anyway, I did see where you suggested using a test piece before the actual work is done, and of course I had planned on this. I'll give it a whirl.

Anyone have more suggestions or experiences with the shrinking hammer? I'd like to order one today maybe. They're like $40. That's do-able.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please, I'll try it one more time...........THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!!
Someone mentioned you need the "shrinking dolly" with the hammer. Not really true. If you increase the area of the surface metal, you will create a bulge. The only thing that can happen from banging a hammer on dolly is metal stretching.

My "shrinking" hammer has now lost it's head and all the bumps on my "shrinking" dolly have been ground off leaving me something I can now use.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #89 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 08:54 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
Purists Hate Me
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: SEAM SEALER
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 58
Posts: 4,184
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 8,618
Thanked 3,973 Times in 2,266 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post

........ I have a question, how high is too high? How high can a tiny dent stick up? Basically? What will all my coats of paint and 2k primer and body work over up? Any rule of thumb to go by?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It can be zero inches too high. Your paper will continuously keep cutting thru at the high metal and you will then need to deal with it then.

Bite the bullet, get the disc, and don't look back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #90 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 10:19 AM
idrivejunk's Avatar
Grand Prix User
 

Last journal entry: Last look
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NW AR, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 4,216
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4,781
Thanked 5,700 Times in 3,330 Posts
This is a good example of why I have the opinion thats its best to stick with one person's guidance when learning this skill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good / Strong Speed 5 Trans To Replace My Muncie M22? HotRodRick Transmission - Rearend 18 02-24-2016 06:22 PM
Replace a 200-4R trans with a T-350 cbrock420 Transmission - Rearend 1 12-12-2011 06:50 AM
Replace Half Door Skin 28chev Body - Exterior 15 01-29-2010 03:34 PM
Replace manual trans with 4L80E - 1999 chevy dually tryc Transmission - Rearend 11 08-23-2008 12:06 PM
Getting ready to replace trans BMM Transmission - Rearend 2 10-27-2007 03:49 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.