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View Poll Results: Junk or Jewel?
Junk, just another gimmick. 22 81.48%
Jewel, I can't wait to start using it. 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2005, 01:05 PM
Shabby chic sheet metalshaper
 
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Hi Darryl,

I would not make claims about "throwing away a hammer and dolly" if I were you. Pulling a dent is an inferior method to actual hammer and dolly work which requires working on both sides of the panel. And I don't mean simply pulling and pushing alone which will not do the job on complex dents. Smoothing by compressing the metal, either with a hammer and dolly, or other compressing type tool is an essential element of some repairs, as is shrinking.

Good luck with your product. If you would like to send the whole thing to me for testing, I would be happy to recommend it if half of what you say is true. My email: [email protected]

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2005, 07:16 PM
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John, one of the things I am thinking of is using this in conjunction with a shrinking disc. I was trying to do a Mazda door today with the disc. I just couldn't get the metal up being the limited access to the back side. I could push it out but couldn't dolly and spoon it. I am thinking this tool with the longer "snout" will get back in there to push low spots out to then level with the disc

Brian
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2005, 07:40 PM
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I wish I had the $$$

I wish I had the cash to buy toys to play with but I am stuck shaping 2x4s and pieces of angle iron to do the things I want to do. I am going to try making some of the wobbly ends for my die grinder also. I really would like to try a tool like this on my 47 Dodge 3 window coupe. I have been beating on it for what seems like forever already trying to get all the damage out of it that someone else put to it trying, I might ad without brains, to do some unwanted custom repairs. We have dreams of grandure when it comes to our completion date of getting to Hot August Nights in Reno in it this next year. Gumpa
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2005, 08:17 PM
 
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You said it yourself,four years ago you did demos and everyone wanted to steal it from you. Now,this year, no demo and look at the damage it may have cost you. I could have laughed all day long but if you were to prove to me at that time what it did, the laughs would have been on me.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2005, 08:37 PM
DENT REMOVAL SYSTEM
 
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Hey guys. Thanks for the advise! Although the product is still in it's infancy as far as getting out, I have been working with it's design,marketing, and concept for almost 5years! I have the data base to over 60k bodyshops around the country. When the time's right a cd (trainning video) will go to all those shops and look for it in "Body Shop Business" and "Auto Body Repair News" as "well as "EastWood" contacted me! Beenawaytoolong, the envelop does'nt have to be big. The head is alittle bigger than the size of a quarter and about 3/4" thick And John,... 'throw away the dolly'.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2005, 08:56 PM
DENT REMOVAL SYSTEM
 
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Martinsr. Let me give you this food for thought. What we're doing IS srinking the sheet metal! Same as Paintless Dent Repair. What's happening is -we're (with pdr) takeing a point-ie'
tool and making microscopic dents in the metal as we push it back into position. this is like takin a piece of paper and crumpeling it up, and then spreading it back out on the table. Because of the tiny creases the paper wont' be quite as big. Same principal. The Dominator head is doing that exact same thing. Putting microscopic dents in the larger dent there by 'shrinking the metal'.
Now this may be a streach.... and I'm not a metalurgist....but.... I could almost swear that as this head is hitting the metal at20k rpms it almost feels as though the heavy vibration is allowing the melecular stucture of the metal to move. Kinda like the 'atoms' have the ability to move cause of the vibration. I don't know.. you'll have to see for yourself. Got you guys thinkin huh!
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 06:59 AM
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Hi Brian,

Sounds like a decent plan. I'm sure Darryl's tool probably would come in handy at times. I would be concerned about the possibility of removing metal at the tiny high spots created by the tool if you go over it with a shrinking disc....unless it is actually stretching the metal up smoothly for subsequent shrinking. As I'm sure you have done before, you can always cut away inner structure to get at the metal and then replace after metal-finishing. Not always feasible in the collision industry of course.

Darryl says the tool shrinks. Making the surface rougher is not the best way to shrink, but it is shrinking if the surface area gets smaller. There would be a limit on how many time you could repair an area without metal fatigue. With a shrinking disc, I have not found that limit yet, and I have done tests that I have documented online. My guess (without trying it) is that Darryl's tool might be useful to the collision industry, but no metalshaper will be giving up hammers and dollies, and the shrinking disc because of it.

If you rely on methods that address one side of a panel at a time, you do not have the control that is sometimes necessary to both do the straightening, and keep the panel in it's original form. You can get away with a certain amount of cheating, but if there is a lot of work to do, it will become a problem. Mulitple small hits on sheet metal without support on the other side of the panel will pull door gaps wider and make kinks in panels if taken far enough. For small dents on areas without previous damage, this may not be an issue, but there is the possibility of making a nice looking repair that ends up having a slightly different curve in one direction or another....a slight bulge or shallow area where there wasn't one before.

John



Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
John, one of the things I am thinking of is using this in conjunction with a shrinking disc. I was trying to do a Mazda door today with the disc. I just couldn't get the metal up being the limited access to the back side. I could push it out but couldn't dolly and spoon it. I am thinking this tool with the longer "snout" will get back in there to push low spots out to then level with the disc

Brian
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:16 AM
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Hi Gumpa,

You can do lot of good metalshaping or repairs with just a claw hammer, or ballpeen and a 2x4. I am just up the coast from you in Moclips. You can contact me through my user profile if you are interested in learning more. Or, post some picture of what you are working on if you want some feedback.

John




Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumpa_38
I wish I had the cash to buy toys to play with but I am stuck shaping 2x4s and pieces of angle iron to do the things I want to do. I am going to try making some of the wobbly ends for my die grinder also. I really would like to try a tool like this on my 47 Dodge 3 window coupe. I have been beating on it for what seems like forever already trying to get all the damage out of it that someone else put to it trying, I might ad without brains, to do some unwanted custom repairs. We have dreams of grandure when it comes to our completion date of getting to Hot August Nights in Reno in it this next year. Gumpa
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:18 AM
DENT REMOVAL SYSTEM
 
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John Kelly,
Don't make this sound like 'rocket science'. My distinct job for the past 15+ years is doing LARGE damage with Paintless Dent Repair on todays sheet metal no less! Give me yester years metal to work ANY day! It's much easeir. You can 'heat shrik' it, you can move it and it stays, etc. etc. point being is this unless you have the same dent occur over and over in the same place, don't worry about 'metal fatige', also if your painting- you CAN use the tool on both sides of the metal hence no hammer and dolly. I know this sounds unbelievable! If you would like I will repeat my inicial offer send me a self addressed envelope and I'll send you one of the 'heads' to try on a die grinder you make the call. Darryl
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kelly
Hi Gumpa,

You can do lot of good metalshaping or repairs with just a claw hammer, or ballpeen and a 2x4. I am just up the coast from you in Moclips. You can contact me through my user profile if you are interested in learning more. Or, post some picture of what you are working on if you want some feedback.

John
Speaking of which, John..when are we plannig to get together?..Bill Parten has expressed an interest in spending a weekend as well as myself and we can invite Gumpa and a few others and have our little Metal Meet @ Moclips sometime early spring..

OMT
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:26 AM
Shabby chic sheet metalshaper
 
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I'll let you know when I'm ready....it will be soon. I think I have your email address. In the interest of not conflicting with metalmeet.com, we will call it something else (smile). New posting rules require that I not post contact information of my own except in my user profile to keep spamishness down. A little awkward, because you can post references to other peoples web sites but not your own. I do respect the rules of the board, and understand the reasoning behind this. There is a fine line between sharing information, and pushing products or services.

John
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:37 AM
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Hi Darryl,

And I will repeat my offer, send me the whole kit and I will test it and return it in two weeks. If it works half as well as you describe, I will recommend it in my next video as a tool for getting into those hard to reach places. If you want references to my honesty, contact me through my user profile.

Do watch out for places like Eastwood ripping of your design. They took a friends e-wheel concept, and cheated him in my opinion. I have had a guy steal my shrinking disc design, and unless you can afford to defend your patent it can happen to you too.

My work is about as far from rocket science as you can get.

John

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominator2
John Kelly,
Don't make this sound like 'rocket science'. My distinct job for the past 15+ years is doing LARGE damage with Paintless Dent Repair on todays sheet metal no less! Give me yester years metal to work ANY day! It's much easeir. You can 'heat shrik' it, you can move it and it stays, etc. etc. point being is this unless you have the same dent occur over and over in the same place, don't worry about 'metal fatige', also if your painting- you CAN use the tool on both sides of the metal hence no hammer and dolly. I know this sounds unbelievable! If you would like I will repeat my inicial offer send me a self addressed envelope and I'll send you one of the 'heads' to try on a die grinder you make the call. Darryl
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kelly
I'll let you know when I'm ready....it will be soon. I think I have your email address. In the interest of not conflicting with metalmeet.com, we will call it something else (smile). New posting rules require that I not post contact information of my own except in my user profile to keep spamishness down. A little awkward, because you can post references to other peoples web sites but not your own. I do respect the rules of the board, and understand the reasoning behind this. There is a fine line between sharing information, and pushing products or services.

John
John,
We can just do a get together and do some '"swapping lies" and "burning burgers" and share some info and meet some of the guys in the area on a personal basis..I think last year some of the guys had a hotrodders com get together back east some where..

Take care

OMT
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 11:35 AM
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John Kelly,

Where do you get off calling the shrinking disc you make YOUR design???

I recall things vastly different. Wray Schelin is the first guy to make mention of a smooth disc with the safe edge. He went as far as to post pictures of the various smaller shrinking discs he had made for his 5" grinder for those area not allowing the use of the larger 9" disc. He also went on to say he was going to make a 9" version and try it out.

I guess since you found the time to get one finished before him, you think that gives you the right to call it your design? I fail to see it that way.
I believe you should be honest with everyone and give credit where it's due.
Wray Schelin proposed the idea, with examples of the smaller shrinking discs he had already made. I would say that mekes it his design, in reality.

So who stole from who, John?

This entire thead is one big advertisement, by the way, not only for the Dominator thingy, but also for John's shrinking discs and videos.

Randy Ferguson
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 12:02 PM
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Hi Randy,

Wray proposed the idea of a flat shrinking disc with a hemmed edge. I made a flat disc with a 90 degree flange. There is a difference, and as you know Wray is making the disc the way I do now. A hemmed edge does not have the stiffness required. I am not talking about Wray stealing my design as I consider it a colaboration. Brian at metalmeet stole from both of us. I have also developed a shallow domed disc. I made and tested these discs extensively to make sure they worked before anyone else did as far as I'm aware. I have given credit to Wray over and over again for the initial idea of a flat disc. I can send you numerous examples of my kudos and credits to Wray if you need them. I have even recommended his DVD about using the shrinking disc in my signature at metalmeet. I also sent Wray one of my disc for free as a trhanks you for the idea. I should have mentioned (again) where I got the idea for a flat disc. I'm sorry I ruffled your feathers. As you know most designs are an extension of what came before. There are design elements that came from me in other's discs as well. I don't see them giving me credit for my ideas. Maybe you could point this out to them in the interest of fairness? Never mind. I don't care. If someone makes an english wheel with new features, is it their design?

John
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