I am in a holding pattern on the door work till the parts get here.
It seems the schnieders and Macs and Langs channel kits are not oem equivalent. I believe they all use the same supplier. I spoke with Langs and they said the channels need modification before they can be used in a 27. It seems like the aforementioned "tracks" won't work out of the box as they are too wide at the clips and you need to cut them down. The replacement channels also include the top piece which is Nothing like the original, it is just plane old flexible channel and you have to use adhesive to hold it in place. That is not oem looking. I still have the two top channel strips that the oem foam fits into. The stories I read from people that bought that kit and installed it were not very flattering and a lot made the comment it doesn't look right at the top..
So I read several more articles and fell upon one that I am going to use. This guy uses the rigid track I just ordered and he uses a factory top cushion at the top and the cushion is glued to a strip of metal and then screwed to the top of the door. I saw photographs of his installs and they look perfect. They even look tid e r than a oem job. corners are clean and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
It appears the missing tracks in my door is just a result of time. Looking where the the missing channel was supposed to be I found a clean fatigue break at the top and the other end still had some plain ol balin wire in the hole where it should mount. It is pretty common for these to break. Also because they are considered a part of the door structure no one repops them. No one will trash even a beat up door just for the lower window channel brace so people have improvised their own. One benefit of doing it that way is there is a modification you can do to make replacing window glass easier.
I might add I am looking for a original look when it comes to windows and trim. I have seen about everything used when it comes to the windows on a T and I want to stay with a outside stock appearance and I ain't a restoration nut.
I have a window template made out of plexi and will make sure of fit and alignment. All I have to do now is decide on a window raising device.
Man O Man all these SLD's I am going crazy and it is a short trip!!! :cool:
Rip, just be sure that you satisfy yourself that you are able to install and remove your panes of glass at any time.
I am not sure if I had a kit or just purchased the components individually.
The glass channel track is hooked at the top and tagged at the lower end and supported in position by the internal garnish moulds.
Obviously there is more than one way to skin a cat so if you develop a method please share it.
I have tried posting replies several times now, only to be told I was lacking some kind of token and needed to contact the Administrator.
In trying to post I have lost all of my replies and am just about to give up on the problems for now.
So this reply is a last ditch attempt to see if the Administrator has fixed it...
Yeehaa, it posted....
I know what ya mean about being able to remove the windows I am just waiting for parts to arrive in the meantime it is clean wire wheel and sand to get everything ready so when the track gets here I can set it up and see how things fit before I accept or reject this idea. I am still on the fence about an elevation mechanism to raise and lower the glass but I am leaning toward the dolphin kit. I saw some stuff cheaper but as it usually goes ya get what you pay for. I have read a lot about them and they seem to be fairly reliable and not bad price. Oh, and they look like they will fit my doors.
I did get parts in the blaster today and I am pleased to say the top channel that holds the oem cushion turned out great after chiseling the hard as a rock rubber out. They looked awful when I pulled them off the door, However when I finally got all the oem rubber out they were internally perfect with a shiny black original paint. The hardened rubber protected the inside.
I will be doing some blasting I hope tomorrow but I started maintenance on the compressor and have to replace the drain valve so I may not get running again till Saturday.
Thanks for the cautions and help.. Back to squirting glass! :cool:
When you say Dolphin, I assume you are planning to go electric?
Just remember if that is the case to work out your cable from pillar into the door as well as determining how and where you will locate your actuation switches.
There is also an interesting couple of comments on another forum right now regarding model T door straps. The subject came to my attention when I fitted my finished doors on my closed cab T pickup.
I believe it is worse for RHD vehicles and that is the strap depending on what you end up using kinder bunches up when the door is closed and is a nuisance to the drivers right leg position on the accelerator.
I chose a rubber strap which creates this problem as well as being pretty poor in the quality stakes.
Others are using seat belt webbing which if doubled up for strength could also be somewhat of a problem.
It seems a solution developed and has probably been around for years but not noticed as it is a concealed solution, whereby the strap is configured on a spring that retracts the strap back and hides it in the cowl panel under the cowl trim.
Quite a useful and cleaver idea, I only wish I had discovered it sooner as I would be considering it as my first option.
Here is a pic of what is being proposed/used.
Thanks for that. I can see this coming in handy on any rod.
Man, I love that idea. That would be a perfect solution to my door stop issue on the 36 roadster! Thanks for posting this.
Man what a week this has been. I had some problems with this bone disease that literally set me down and inert for a few days and just before that I was getting out of my van using my hydraulic lift and on the way down I blew the seal in the left cylinder and me and a bunch of hydraulic fluid found us meeting the ground a bit quicker and messier. So that has stopped my progress for a few. I have "Parts on order" a new cylinder for this thing is $450.00 and a new piston,Rings,Seals and the upper bushings are merely $145.00 a tube and my lift has 2 tubes.. So as soon as the stuff gets here I should be somewhat more mobile again. Maybe I will get the stuff and get it done by Friday.
Hey fiftyv8 that is an awesome idea about the retractable door stop strap I think I am going to do that. I also noted that maybe even a seat belt retractor mech and a fixed stop in the strap. I am definitely going to look into that as I am going to be working on the cowl there by the A pillars.
This window thing is driving me crazy. I wanted to convert to electric windows as it removes a knob off the door that might jab you in the leg and as small as a TCoupe cabin is every object that shares cabin space better not make me uncomfortable on down the road or it may accidently fall off!
So back to the window problems. So I had made a rough list of three manufactures, this was after I read literally everything I could find on each opener.
List was short after looking at everything I could find and thought I could afford this is what I found from lowest cost to higher cost. Oh not a lot of T openers.
First Dolphin.. Had a friend recommend them he has a set and has had them over 5 years with no problems looked like they just might work.
Stepping up a few dollars. Autoloc. I actually thought these might work and I liked the drive much better.
Finally a Speciality Power window kit. I started looking and it looked like the only a T type lifter was available. I then found the 1927 doors and the 1928-31 model A doors used the same window lift workings in the doors and literally were the same size so I checked Speciality again and they listed a different lift assembly and at first thought hmm maybe this one. However I do not like that one at all.
After looking to no avail I finally found "The Solution". The solution was Nu Relics model A 72800-211. Be Warned major Sticker Shock and I am still trying to get the ol ticker to idle smooth. They really really really like their product. I need to find a deal..
Nu Relics makes a opener for the model A. This opener bolts into the oem holes and works just like a conventional crank assembly the motors are set to clear obstacles and attached to the crank plate. the whole thing is built well from what I see. They actually use the ford stock type of mechanism. looks like minimum mods and is said to be the best.. The reviews were positive.
There is one last solution and that is one I don't want to do but it is the easiest of all and that is to just put a stock handle in and forget it.. Ahhh but that isn't any fun at all. I asked the wife this and she said Go for what I really want! Too bad that is a loaded answer! If I do she may need to buy her something of equal value that might hurt my parts budget..:eek: :pain:
Ohhh what is a person to do???? In the meantime I am finishing cleaning up both doors so I can shoot a coat of SPI Inside. I need to get the rest of my parts in and start to get everything lined up and ready to mock up while the skins are still off. My window rail came in and it fits just like it is supposed to. At least something positive for a change..
Ok that's it from here..:cool:
One thought came to mind while I was reading your post Rip. Even if the model A and the T use the same hardware, the height of the roof and travel required for the T window might be too great for a regulator designed for a model A.
Maybe not but worth looking into anyway. Best of luck buddy. :thumbup:
Kool that is a excellent idea john. I need to see if I can find the window info on a 28 A. I know the stock window crank assemblies are the same for 27 thru 31.
That's a great idea I would hate to step up with the expensive kit only to find it wouldn't Fit. Although I see just about every kit "Requires Some Modification".:cool:
Modification is the key word in hot rodding.
Also funny how one modification leads to another down the line...
Show no fear and head into the wilderness.
Ok Ok some semblance of sanity finally has reached back into the the dark places and led me back to reality. I was all set to do this electric window thing and buy the nu relics window kit when I spent some serious quality time studying this whole idea.
I happened to have a pair of ford Bronco II electric motor and lifts. I also brought out the stock regulators. I started moving things around and trying to see if I had the physical space for all this junk. The verdict was in, It will not work using any electric kit with out major hacking up of the inside of the doors and brought with it several other problems like the wire pass through through the A pillar. There is no room for a boot so you are left with using a sliding conbuit that when opened the conduit got longer and when you closed the door the conduit slides into the A pillar ( hopefuly). I don't like that either. Everything is so small it won't allow any use of large things.
I started measuring door differences between the T and the A and when I found some real good photos of a 1928 A door the differences were significant. one thing is the access you have in a A door. There is definitely more room. With that in mind. I looked real close and I don't think the electric motor kit from Nu Relics will fit.
I can't justify the money and the butchering of a perfectly good door I just rebuilt. Sure anything can be done if you really want to. I chose to Not Hack at this point
I do want to give a plug for a guy that was straight up with me and gave me the absolute best price on the Nu Relics and free shipping. That guy runs a business called Matt's Classic Bowties.
So now that I have cleared my mind of fantasy things like eltrizical gadgets to make me lazy-er I am ready to get back to business and get this project ready to prime.
I ordered a new set of "Mechanical window cranks and handles today should have them this week end. Tomorrow I hope to get the parts for the wheelchair lift so I will be mobile again..
Wow what a long strange trip it's been:cool:
RVW, well said and I'm glad you took the time to investigate the electric windows.
The cable slide thing sure does not lend itself easily to many doors as I discovered when installing such windows into my avatar F100.
There are some things best left alone in hot rod projects at times.
We also know what good T doors are worth and how much of a shame it would be to hack decent doors up.
I purchase a universal fit F100 electric window kit for a range of years.
What a joke and pretty sure it would not fit any perfectly.
I refused to hack my doors as in F100's, there is no trim panels to hide anything, so I made adapter plates and numerous other adjustments to obtain a decent out come, all thru the small opening in my doors.
No fun at all, the results were good, but no thanks to the salesman that sold them too me.
It was a character building experience I could well have done without.
T Door progress.
I am making slow progress on the doors. I have them 95% cleaned up and ready almost for primer. I figured out the window channel mounting and that worked nice. My stock replacement window crank assemblies arrived. Along with a bunch of little things the door needed. I am now working on the messed up clinch nuts that the window trim screws to. Of course I found areas of the inner sheet metal bent,twisted and generally messed up. I been straightening dent removing and fitting the rest.
I have been bead blasting all the little stuff in the door like the trim and lower window trim piece on the window opening. that piece was especially difficult as it was twisted and bent in a curve in all the wrong places. I am going to push ahead and get these parts ready and get some primer on them too. I will have a lot of stuff ready to prime in about a week. That should allow me to finish the work on the door and A and B Pillar work.
So I ran the door hinges in the bead blaster and after I was done it was obvious I had at least 2 bent hinges on my problematic passenger door. The hinge has a shell over the leading part of the hinge, This shell is cracked so I will need to address that problem I will straighten these out and replace the pins. I think the door will fit better!
So there is still a lot of work to do I am feeling more confident as I move along. :cool:
I had some pictures to post but suddenly I can't find them. I will look in my computer and try to find them again.
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