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John long 07-24-2018 02:27 AM

I am glad it is coming together for you Rip. Thanks for the update. :thumbup:


fiftyv8 07-24-2018 05:05 AM

RVW, you are doing well, you will be thru the hard stuff before you know it.

I am trying to sculpture a bolt in style door retractor strap similar to what I posted.
It is too late for me to build one in so I will see if I can make one all the same.
I got hold of some 65mm x 35mm RHS tube which is slender enough and the inside clearance is OK to handle seat belt strapping.
More if I am successful.

Rip VW 07-25-2018 05:01 PM

Thanks John and fiftyv8,

Ok I have been looking into the little details of the door and want to have all the hardware replaced or refurbished. When I bought the coupe I had most of the interior trim but it was only held on with one or 2 screws. Now that I have cleaned up the trim and the door I started checking for nut attachments and tabs etc.

Back 90 years ago when this critter was built they used several different sized fasteners of a size that was common to that time but some of this hardware is either too expensive to acquire or made out of unobtainium. such is the case for the doors. Ford used a lot of 12-24 machine screws with slotted heads. and they used a type of press nut attached to the door shell to attach the trim and everything else to. it is "D" shaped to keep from turning free. Short story is I have a lot of 12-24 D Nuts to replace due to damage or just plane missing. There are D Nuts available but they are expensive and you need a C frame press to install them correctly. A lot of people just weld the nuts in but I don't like either option.

I am going to use a low profile rivet nut and replace the old with new using stock locations in other words I keep the 12-24 size thread. However there is a trade off. I could NOT find a sleeve and mandrel for my current shop tool it is like all the makers have dropped the 12-24 mandre support.

My answer was McMaster Car. They have a hand held manual low profile style Nut set tool and they had the mandrel and sleeve and a bunch of the 12-24 low profile Nut serts I hated to have to spend money on a tool but now between the hand tool and my main Nut Set tool kit I have everything covered from 6-32 all the way to 5/16-18 and now 12-24.

The weather here has been Hot. That is for a northwest day in the summer. Up here 72 degrees is like upper 80's in hawaii that is awesome! John you should know about these normal summers and then a hot summer like this one. Hardly any people here have air conditioning here and were not used to HOT weather 90 plus degrees. and we are having a string of record breaking highs in the 90s This is definitely slowing my progress. I start about 8 am and by noon the temp in the shop is already in the upper 80s I don't do heat well at all. I almost died about 20 years ago from heat exhaustion and dehydration and they caution my to stay out of the extreme heat. I do just that.

Not a lot to do in the next few days til parts come in and I am thinking about 3 days fishing up at a friends cabin. I hope I don't slide off the dock...

No pictures today as I was Live!! :cool:

fiftyv8 07-25-2018 05:59 PM

RVW, sadly a lot of folks will not appreciate the trials and tribulation us T model project guys need to go thru to get a build just right.
I got my insert tool from Menards Hardware in the USA they had them at far the best price.
My T window trim attachment points had tiny floating captured nuts.
Rather than buy more, I just cut a strip of the correct thickness metal, center popped a row, the drilled and tapped them all and then proceeded to cut them off the strip. Not that hard, but way beyond what one would expect to have to do.

Don't worry, it will soon be winter again and then it will be too cold.
I too don't like humidity all that much, but don't mind dry heat, I'll take that any day over cold weather.
Time to soldier on with my door strap retractor.

Rip VW 07-25-2018 08:52 PM

Mr fiftyv8,

As scary as it may seem we do think alike. I have had people ask me "why are you doing all these little things cause you won't see it when it is done. My answer is "I will see it"! I could cut a lot of corners here and it may look just as nice to the untrained or uncaring eye but I will know and I will know I didn't put forth my 100% effort. My grandfather used to tell me when you have a job to do put forth your best effort everytime and it will pay off in the long run. he had a lot of spur of the moment bits of wisdom. I learned a lot from him.

On this pressnut thing I could have just welded the holes up and used sheet metal screws but that is not how it should be done in my opinion. That is also how Henry wanted it!

I have another question for you fiftyv8 this concerns the window trim on the door. There is a u shaped trim then the window lower trim there are metal strips attached to the trim and it looks like sometime in its life it was covered with fabric. is that what it is supposed to look like? Maybe you could post a photo of your door window assembly I have been looking to find some detailed photos.:cool:

fiftyv8 07-25-2018 09:18 PM

Quick answer now RVW, but I will find a couple of pic's for you.

Firstly, it sounds like we may have shared the same grandfather. Hahahaha....
What do they say, 9 degrees of separation and nearly everybody is related some how...

Secondly, there are two different trim setups for this 26 and 27 Model T's.
I believe I have a sample of both here which will help.

fiftyv8 07-25-2018 09:56 PM

RVW, well I took a look and it was easier than I had anticipated.
So, we have two different window surround systems.

The first couple of pic's are of what I have used which is by far the simplest and easiest from what I see.
I believe this is possibly the 1927 solution since it continued on into the Model A pickup doors which are also pretty much the same as the T coupe doors we own. From what I can guess is that between 1926 and 1927 there were some serious economies put in place even though both year bodies are the same generally.
The system I have used consists two very flat top hat channel that are screwed to the inner door vertical window posts and then a U shaped sheet metal sleeve is slid down over the channels from the top.
Mostly, these channels are quite dented or damaged, but new items can be had. I bought new ones and had them chrome plated because they were so good.

The second style of window trim I believe is the one that matches with your door hinges which I believe to be of the 1926 era.
There seems to be quite a solid trim again in a U shape for the doors which is screwed to the door, but then there is a small and very light sheet metal C channel strip for the want of a better description that is obviously trimmed and some how attached over the solid U shaped piece.
I always wondered how this system worked, but to me it looked to hard and I have never owned a full set of these pieces so hence have never before taken the time to analyse how it works until now.

So thanks for pushing me to check it out, although it just reinforces my choice of systems once more. I am guessing the main trim pieces would not be available, but possibly the light sheet metal items would be but could possibly be home made with templates and patience.:smash:

fiftyv8 07-25-2018 10:01 PM

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Sorry RVW, having trouble posting pic's.
If they don't work out this time PM me your email address and I'll send them that way.

If they do come thru, then this is the style I am using.
I will try to post the other which I am thinking you have.


fiftyv8 07-25-2018 10:07 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Here we go for your style.

Rip VW 07-26-2018 10:05 PM

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Thanks for the pictures and the info. Yeah mine are the last type. I finally found my disassembly pictures and here are 3 shots showing the little covers. They are secured by those big screw looking things with the staple to hold it in place. That screw looking thing is a nail type device and presses into a metal capture type clip.

The one in the photo was the only complete possible reusable one I have. The rest are bent twisted and mangled. They are probably 22 ga at best and definitely ugly. I really like the ones you have so maybe I will keep looking for a pair of them. I also thought I might ask my brother to make a kool looking wood inlay and use that. lots of ideas.. Hey thanks for clearing that up for me.

Looks like the fishing trip is off as the wife wants to do something on Saturday. Oh well back to the grind..:cool:

Edit entry: You are correct on the hinges for the door. They are early style 1927 which means they were really made for 1926. They are slightly narrower than the late 27 hinges. I wouldn't be surprised if the doors are 26. I know the basic shell of the car is 1927 but from there on anyone's guess.

fiftyv8 07-26-2018 10:37 PM

Glad to be able to help RVW and I have learnt a little more myself.

Just another comment for anybody who maybe interested.
If you use a Model A pickup you will discover the diameter of the hinge pin is different, I think larger but don't take it for gospel.

I ended up purchasing some slightly over sized stainless steel bolts, cleaned out all my hinge holes and proceeded to custom make each hinge pin from a bolt to fit perfect, as top and lower holes in my hinges all seemed to vary.

I then machined the head roundish and they look nice.
No need to paint them and they wont go rusty.

A quick question, what plans do you have for your LHD dash panel???

fiftyv8 07-28-2018 12:20 AM

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RVW, here is a different method to trim a door window.
I found this posted on the internet.
It looks like a cross between what I have and what you have.
It also looks to be a one piece unit which incorporates the sill and makes the whole thing into a kind of frame.
I could be tempted to try something like that next time if there is a next time...:confused:

Rip VW 07-28-2018 01:55 PM


I like the way that looks. It flows from top to bottom.

I did have a thought about mine. the holes that that the upholstered cover plugs into are set in a little washer sized recess!

I am thinking just make up some washer sized plugs weld them over the holes then a skim of filler to make everything real smooth. and paint to taste.

Setting here thinking even more a person could cut some say 20ga pieces and fit them over the trim area and weld them up. if you covered the whole side all you would need to do is drill the mount screws from the back and dimple the cover. I kind of like that idea too!

This is great having another fellow T builder to bounce questions and such off of.

I also looked over the door strap retractor and I like the simplicity of it. I will soon be working in that area on my coupe and may just whip up one of them.. Let me know if ya write up any change orders..:cool:

fiftyv8 07-28-2018 04:39 PM

RVW, yes I had the same thought about how to use your window trims without doing what had been done previously.
As I have a set here, but with most of the tin covers missing.

Any thoughts on what you will do with your dash yet?

Rip VW 07-28-2018 07:06 PM

3 Attachment(s)
The dash huh? Well it will be 75% stock or close to it. I will smooth it so it is flat all across. I am going to have my brother make me a wood inlay and I will have an Autometer gee wiz gauge set, with white faces chrome bezels and FORD embossed on the lower part of the bezel and across the face of the speedometer it says Ford. I will add a couple a photos of the gauge set I just took today. You get a first peek. I have not posted these before..

So here you go...:cool:

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