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Old 03-17-2020, 04:19 PM
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Roll bar inside 3W coupe

looking for advice on the order to do things in from anyone that has put a roll bar inside a 3W coupe. There are a bunch of things that have to happen, that all get in the way of one another so what is the best order to do these in?
Paint the frame
Attach the roll bar assembly to the frame
Attach the body to the frame
Paint the interior, underside and trunk
paint the exterior of the body

my gut tells me that you want to do a trial fit of everything to ensure you know how you are going to get the roll bar into the coupe and then paint everything except the roll bar to frame attachment points and the connection points of the roll bar assembly itself then mount the body to the frame and then install the roll bar and lastly touch up the unpainted spots and cover with the flooring. But I'd like to hear the pros and cons from the folks that have done this.

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Old 03-17-2020, 07:38 PM
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Not an expert here, but here's how I did it (different body) - Painted everything except 3-4 inches of the bar and where it attaches to the frame. The tac welded the cage to the frame points and lifted the body off the frame about 2 feet. Then welded all of the frame points solid and painted; dropped the body back down.
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Old 03-18-2020, 08:00 AM
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nailhead nailed it

yes test and fit for sure. the model A in on my bucket list.. but i'd never add a roll bar. too restrictive.
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Old 03-18-2020, 10:24 AM
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A Roll Bar, not a Full Roll Cage, isn't that complicated. Painting has many variants depending on where your starting with an unpainted or a finished Car that you've decided up add a Roll Bar.

But first you need to get a Roll Bar Bent to fit your car.

LONG, But here is how I've been do these projects for years as a DIY, and professional Engineer and fair Fabricator.

I glued up a plywood proto-type

I had some left over sheet thin (veneer) plywood. Set my table saw for 2 inch and cut many long strips 8 feet lengths. I laid out 5 individual strips and glued them sandwiched together, glued with Elmer's water soluble glue then aligned and clamped them to dry. I Fab'd about several dozen lengths,,for my full roll car. The glue drys in a few hours and then I kept repeating this process.

i started with the main Hoop, which would be your Roll Bar.. In my '37 Chevy Coupe the body was mounted without the doors, interior, deck lid, and front clip I had to Add frame extensions (4x4 rectangular) sections from the frame. I cut 1/4 inch 4x6 inch plates to overlap the this frame extension and the lay onto the top of the frame. We drilled 1/5/8 inch holes through the 4x4 tubing and flat plates so the roll Bar main Hoop could pass through the frame extension to set the correct snug height. Once all cut, drilled and clean we clamped onto the frame in the appropriate position, front to rear, to where this hoop would be welded @ the B Pillars.

Then We cut Two vertical plywood pieces to a length that would was slightly longer than needed, that being from of the Bend at the top near the roof and the new drilled frame extension.. Next we cut a dozen or more short pieces that wound mimic the bend (and bracing) at the top and sides of the windshield, and the piece for the horizontal piece that's just above the windshield.

With a helper, chop saw, hot glue gun and a dozen or so small metal claps we went about cutting the plywood strips. We cut the two long verticals that are adjacent to the A & B Pillars with about a 30 degrees angle on the top ends. This takes a few tries to get to the desired personal radius to fit the cars interior body lines and clearances. So We let the bottom end long and passed it through the new frame extension and aligned it. Lots of small Bunge cords, making tape and even some string to hold in place.

Next we got the clamps out and slowly clamped them to the A Pillar wood member and formed the curved radius, and clamped it in place,, many times. i didn't have any floorboards at the time, so it was a little bit easier This took quite a few times to cut angles and side cut on the outside edge to form a radius, maybe 10 minutes, and Hot Gluing into place as we formed the radius.. Then once completed when placed the Kluge on a piece of cardboard board and drew out the outline on the Outside Edge. Many small metal clamps were used.

We then we copied for the B Pillar side. I've tried over the years many other methods including PVC pipe, copper tubing, you name it. This was easy for me and low cost.

Once glued We installed and secured our Kluge in place with Tape etc. Same process or the Eyebrow bar that lies horizontal over the windshield. This was quick and simple. We where very careful to keep the top of this bar even on both sides. This was done with wood spacers.

This is all that's needed for the a Roll Bar.

We completed this process for the entire roll cage, it was quite a sight inside my car.. But I like full scale patterns. I later reduced to B size drawings and emailed to Art Morrison Ent. in Fife WA., the closet to me and We've worked together several times. Their Frame and Roll Cage bending is extremely accurate, and very fairly priced. I purchased painters Tan [email protected] Home Depot, the kind that they used to cover floors when painting inside a house. Masking Tape and a Black Marker.

Once one has pattern, it's more likely to exactly as you wish, in my experiences. AME preferred signed drawing, so that's what I provided them. Some Fabricators would like patterns. For me this was an easy and quick means for a low cost pattern.

Once I had my pile of roll cage parts the first piece was the main hoop over at the B Pillar.

So we placed main hoop inside the car We slid it into the holes 4x6 flats onto the hoop and then inserted this hoop into the 4x4 frame extensions. We did need to remove them for the frame and then re-clamp. Once the frame extensions we clamped in place we simply raised this main hoop up to the desired position, re-adjusted the frame extension a few times and took a Break. Once set to the desired clearance from the roof, we cut two identical wood spacers and taped to the hoop.

Now We just looked at the Hoop Roll Bar after placing a seat to the proper position, check the location many many times, and a few more adjustments. Once it is welded in place it's there to stay. We again have this bend piece of tubing secured with all sorts of means. But the First job now is to TIG Tack the frame members in place. After confirming the location, Ron TIG welded the frame members. Then after a close inspection Ron Tacked the Hoop in place. Finally I could remove ll the tape, string etc and after cooling period, replace the seats. All is well and Ron (skilled & certified welder) finished the TIG welding. The last job was to lower the 2x6 flat plates and weld in place. These two flats firmly secure the frame extension to the frame.

Welding in the frame extensions, roll bar hoop and flats and all the check and rechecking seemly like slow motion was only about four hours.

After the entire foll cage was completed and a few small braces and left over suspension brackets (new frame too). We lifted the body of a had a neighbor dustless (wet) sandblasted I primed and painted two days later. This was a very good day.

Everyone has their own performances to the Task at hand, patterns work well for me for complex large curved projects. For Me a simple Roll Bar, a full Roll Cage, or a complete new Frame, strength, alignment, fitment and beauty is a must have..

Good Luck, hope some of this helps and gives to a few ideas....

Michael..











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Old 03-21-2020, 12:26 PM
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What is the roll bar being used for? Is this personal or a sanctioned thing?

If personal then you can use a through floor connection. The roll cage is still mounted to the frame through a cross member (above the transmission) on the inside of the frame and triangulated supports on the outside of the frame. You just have plates that are sandwiched above and below the body that bolt to these supports which allow for removal of the interior cage.

With your 3 window I would have two hoops bent to around 150 degrees. Have 4 mounting plates attaching those hoops to the frame then have a removable bar between the drivers and passenger hoop (for side to side bracing and attaching seat belts) as well as 2 bars going from the hip height to the floor between the seats to provide forward and backward protection. I would make the hoops out of .250 wall and the rest out of .120.


The key here is to use heims to build some beefy tie rods. The ones in the links below are some serious stuff (your going to need 3 rods).

Using tie rods allows you to remove sections of the cage. More importantly they allow you to turn them so that the cage is under tension. This adds strength.

By doing this you can remove the cage almost as easily as removing the seats. It is not a sanctioned cage by any means. But it will provide a good amount of protection in the event of a roll.

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...g/78STEER.html
https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...78TRE-KIT.html
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:57 PM
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What is the roll bar being used for? Is this personal or a sanctioned thing?

Primarily Street, but 1/8 miles a tests runs , Run. For me mostly an Engineering challenge to build this car mostly from scratch. I made many drawings. Well some romping at the PIR F1 coarse. She's Well beyond NHRA rules. The frame and cage are long since finished and painted. BTW Corvette suspension both ends,, major components. LS3 dual mirror image turbos. Currently I have a full rolling chassis with suspension, R&P and Column, and running gear. I mostly drive Vette's ( mostly stock Verts) and my old '56. This is a build is the one that I've wanted to complete for many years. Yes, I def went way overboard, I'm a retired profession Engineer - I just had too.

If personal then you can use a through floor connection. The roll cage is still mounted to the frame through a cross member (above the transmission) on the inside of the frame and triangulated supports on the outside of the frame. You just have plates that are sandwiched above and below the body that bolt to these supports which allow for removal of the interior cage.

Not possible. This is a Superior Glass works Carbon Fiber Race car body. Being the equivalent of a 3 inch shop, 3.5 inch sectioning, and channeled over the frame 4 inches,, a very crowded interior and engine bar. Just no room and you know NHRA would have a Fit and fall in.

With your 3 window I would have two hoops bent to around 150 degrees. Have 4 mounting plates attaching those hoops to the frame then have a removable bar between the drivers and passenger hoop (for side to side bracing and attaching seat belts) as well as 2 bars going from the hip height to the floor between the seats to provide forward and backward protection. I would make the hoops out of .250 wall and the rest out of .120.

Nope, 150 deg not close. This cage is bend so it fits very snug to the interior of the body, was a PITA, but room is at a premium. The cage is well above NHRA spec and all tubing is 1 5/8 OD, the alloy is one of Art Morrison's proprietary alloy. Frame and Cage full welded in place. plus welded in bars that tubing that contours the seats outer edges, the swing out bars & rocker bars. Front hoop w dash bar, rear (B Pillar) hoop with mid bar for bracing a belts. plus a bar under the rear window. Rear brace bars from the rear A Pillar hoop extend to the rear most cross member. Front suspension bars that extend to both A Pillars front hoop. Plus expensive of bracing, six welded in place cross members and one removable trans cross member. prob missed something.

The key here is to use heims to build some beefy tie rods. The ones in the links below are some serious stuff (your going to need 3 rods). Using tie rods allows you to remove sections of the cage. More importantly they allow you to turn them so that the cage is under tension. This adds strength.

No idea what your referring to, I'm lodt... NHRA requires full roll cage to be 100 % welded and preferable TIG, which it is. I use NHRA rules as a minimum standard and adapt to the body as it was just a shell. When it comes to welding a structure like this, I just do the Tacks, Ron does the serious welding, his occupation. This frame and cage combo is very rigid, but not too rigid. I'm fairly adapt to the Method of Beams and the Math.

By doing this you can remove the cage almost as easily as removing the seats. It is not a sanctioned cage by any means. But it will provide a good amount of protection in the event of a roll.

I have no reason to have any cage section removable in this car,, , ,,, no room anyways. Interesting idea though.

True the frame and cage have extensive members and bracing. The tubing is not expensive and it's me that's driving. One major concern is a T-Bone on a Door, hence the seat bars and swing out bars plus the rockers. The doors are also carbon fiber, no internal reinforcement.

Thanks for the feedback.

Michael.
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