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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2006, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blklar
Can any body tell me if you have to sand Pro Form 163 self etching primer between coats and if you have to use sealer primer over top of it before you paint it.
You definately should seal over any type of self etch primer, self etch primers are a 1K product that will saturate with solvent given the chance. Some self etch primers also serve as a surfacer but definately seal before paint. Epoxy primer is a better way to go, the benifits are plenty and the disadvantages are few.

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Old 12-11-2006, 10:03 PM
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epoxy primer

I have to introduce myself as an amateur painter, but I have listened to a lot of experts in the field and a lot of self-proclaimed experts also. The paint store I deal with promotes PPG as a first choice. I have used DX wash primer over bare metal and within an hour top-coated with DPLF as a sealer. Usually thinning the DPLF 2 to 1 with reducer. This allows for less sanding. This achieves the best of both worlds, using a etching primer for bite and an epoxy primer to seal and create an excellent primer base. Keep in mind that you can't apply wash primer over bondo and most bodymen prefer to apply all bondo over 40 grit prepped bare metal. Thanx for listening and any and all feedback is appreciated. These processes are constantly changing!!!
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerw55
I have to introduce myself as an amateur painter, but I have listened to a lot of experts in the field and a lot of self-proclaimed experts also. The paint store I deal with promotes PPG as a first choice. I have used DX wash primer over bare metal and within an hour top-coated with DPLF as a sealer. Usually thinning the DPLF 2 to 1 with reducer. This allows for less sanding. This achieves the best of both worlds, using a etching primer for bite and an epoxy primer to seal and create an excellent primer base. Keep in mind that you can't apply wash primer over bondo and most bodymen prefer to apply all bondo over 40 grit prepped bare metal. Thanx for listening and any and all feedback is appreciated. These processes are constantly changing!!!
You are right, not only are the processes changeing, but there are a lot of "right" ways to do things. Yours is one of them.

I just hope blklar didn't run off into the woods with all this discussion one etch vs epoxy and not even answer his question! blklar, have you bought this etch, or already applied it. What can we do for you? Forget all the peeing match crap and come on back so we can figure out what you should do.

Brian
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerw55
I have to introduce myself as an amateur painter, but I have listened to a lot of experts in the field and a lot of self-proclaimed experts also. The paint store I deal with promotes PPG as a first choice. I have used DX wash primer over bare metal and within an hour top-coated with DPLF as a sealer. Usually thinning the DPLF 2 to 1 with reducer. This allows for less sanding. This achieves the best of both worlds, using a etching primer for bite and an epoxy primer to seal and create an excellent primer base. Keep in mind that you can't apply wash primer over bondo and most bodymen prefer to apply all bondo over 40 grit prepped bare metal. Thanx for listening and any and all feedback is appreciated. These processes are constantly changing!!!
If you dump the junk DPLF and use a good epoxy primer then there wouldn't be any need for the wash primer. I wouldn't do any filler work over DPLF if there's wash primer under it-DPLF offer's very little solvent resistance and the solvents in the filler would soak right through and into the wash primer. 40 grit for prepping sheetmetal before fillers is old technique- 80 grit is all that's needed with quality fillers-I remember using 24 grit and also had 16grit on the shelf that never seen use. Times are changing, and I'm done pissing for the moment
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
80 grit is all that's needed with quality fillers-I remember using 24 grit and also had 16grit on the shelf that never seen use. Times are changing, and I'm done pissing for the moment
I actually don't use anything any coarser than 120 most of the time. The way I see it, if I am going to featherout the filler onto metal with 80 grit scratches I might as well leave the filler finished in 80.

I have a few of those 24 grit discs too! OUCH!

You know, we don't have any filler cutting paper any coarser than 80 in the shop and if it weren't for a couple of procedures like adhesive prep I would get all the 36 grit Roloc discs out of there. There are some guys in the shop that use that stuff WAY too much. They will prep pinch welds with it!!!!!

Brian
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:07 AM
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re: self etching

So BADDBOB, which epoxy primer do you use and what do you base your neg. opinion on DPLF. I must admit I have been in somewhat of a rut since the 2 stores I deal with push the stuff. I would be all for an epoxy primer that would take the place of a first stage metal etch. Keep in mind the DPLF can be used as a sealer once all body work/block sanding is complete. Again I am very interested in all views.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:16 PM
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The DPLF doesn't compare to a lot of quality epoxy primers that are available, the old DP version IMO was one of the best available but when they discontinued it and put out the LF version the quality level dropped off big time. ExamplePLF can be saturated with lacquer thinner and wiped off even after a month of curing telling me it's not even close in comparison with most epoxies as far as solvent resistance, it doesn't sand for crap-yes sometimes you'll need to sand epoxy, durability sucks, and it's overpriced. It's just a big letdown qualitywise IMO and I won't consider using it. Even PPG's Industrial line EPX-900 is a way better product. Akzo Nobel makes some good epoxies. Currently I'm using SPI epoxies and to date haven't found anything better available, this stuff sticks, sands, cures up good, stays flexible, and is competatively priced.

I really like most PPG products but the DPLF is a joke IMO.
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:31 PM
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You guys got me away from DuPont Variprime etch primer to SPI epoxy - this stuff is mom's apple pie and sliced bread all wrapped up in one product. There are a couple of places that I have used it in place of 2K - it sands nice. But, obviously you should use 2K (unless you are Shine ). Also, even I couldn't make it run, though I have read that 1 guy did, but probably after thinning a bit too much.

The price for SPI is right plus you can call the owner of the company if you have a problem - try that with PPG or DuPont

I tried Nason Ful Poxy and while it is a nice product, you cannot sand it once it cures out - 120 just skids over the surface.

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Old 12-12-2006, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blklar
Can any body tell me if you have to sand Pro Form 163 self etching primer between coats and if you have to use sealer primer over top of it before you paint it.
Well its not Pro Form 163 but it does show how to use etching primer.

http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/me...red_metal.html
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:14 PM
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self etching primer

I'm a little po'd. I walked out to the shop today, took a rag soaked with DT870 (PPG reducer) and wiped it vigorously on an inconspicuous area on my 66 chevelle. The body has been sealed with DPLF after approx. 300 man hours of carefully executed body work. The thing is arrow straight. Just as BADDBOB proclained the DPLF wiped off with about 6 strokes. I'm not sure which way to turn at this point. If I topcoat the thing with ppg base-clear which I'd planned from the get-go would I be taking a chance on the substraight affecting the finish. I think this sounds like a stupid question but keep in mind the 300 hours!!!!
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Old 12-13-2006, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerw55
I'm a little po'd. I walked out to the shop today, took a rag soaked with DT870 (PPG reducer) and wiped it vigorously on an inconspicuous area on my 66 chevelle. The body has been sealed with DPLF after approx. 300 man hours of carefully executed body work. The thing is arrow straight. Just as BADDBOB proclained the DPLF wiped off with about 6 strokes. I'm not sure which way to turn at this point. If I topcoat the thing with ppg base-clear which I'd planned from the get-go would I be taking a chance on the substraight affecting the finish. I think this sounds like a stupid question but keep in mind the 300 hours!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like responding to this kind of subject but I have done enough restorations to know 300 hours is one hell of a job in just body work.
Two questions.
What is the next application, primer or base?
Do you have a bake booth?
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:24 PM
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self etching primer

The next application is base color and no I don't have a bake booth. I will be painting in my shop which is heated only. I am not on a schedule since this is my personal vehicle. On a different note I followed BADDBOB's advice and looked into SPI's product line and was amazed at the affordability of their paints compared to the PPG line.
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:09 PM
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What I would do. I would put one wet coat of base on, spray it like your spraying your last coat of clear (for many good reasons)
Do not put on two coats.
If you could bake I would have baked that Car at 140-150 for 60 minutes. Since you don't put the base out in sun for a day the temp is not important as your looking for UV's only.
Next day lightly scuff up the coat of base with out breaking through, then finish basing and for get about any problems showing up.
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