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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3repete View Post
True, he liked the 5 better. But the 4 is what I selected before hearing about the 5 or the Cat.
Then when I watched the review of the 4 it looked to be what a hobbyist-rookie could use. At this point I'm staying with it and if it pukes I'll come and confess. I promise!
Also it's true that the Cat uses what I said... on HVLP. Here's the copy I lifted from your link "HVLP Air Cap 23-1301 (13.5 CFM @ 29 PSI)"
I've been getting ready to do HVLP, not conventional. If I were to go conventional what is the tradeoff? It looks as if it gives a little less efficient transfer., but requires less cfm. So lose a little paint avoid buying a bigger compressor. Do they lay down paint the same? Or close?
I'm fine if you want to talk me into spraying conventional, I'm able to make changes.
I can't really put down the 4 as I haven't used it, but I wanted to share what I had seen in reviews and price point. You are definitely right on support from Devilbiss being readily available and reliable.

Note that the "HTE," "HE," "RP," "CPR," etc. guns are "high efficiency" or "compliant" not truly conventional. This means that they are not as wasteful as the conventional shooters of yesteryear. You can find charts touting % efficiency between each type of technology. I'm not sure how accurate the %'s actually are, but you can see that the compliant guns are very close to HVLP. Both meet requirements set by law in most areas, hence the terminology "compliant."

Benefits:
Compliant - better finish capabilities, less air consumption, still meets regulations unless noted in specific areas

HVLP - lowest material waste*

*A lot of guys will make the argument that HVLP can actually cost you more in time and possibly materials due to the fact that they don't lay down material as nicely (read: you may end up doing more buffing/respray).

I switched to gravity fed HVLP from an old siphon feed fire-hose about 15 years ago now. The biggest things I noticed were that the gravity feed system is far superior and allows you to get all the material out of the cup, and it did seem to be producing far less fog (wasted material) in the shop.

In the last year I switched from the HVLP cap to the compliant cap. The first things I noticed were that I could spray way faster and it just kind of naturally goes on slick with less fussing. I did *NOT* notice there being any more fog or more material usage than the HVLP cap. My gun reloading seemed on par with before and my material estimating was still spot on.

My personal opinion would be to not waste time with HVLP unless you are required to by law.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:48 AM
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For the compressor the drive ratio would have to come in to any decision. I'd need a drive sheave anyhow since my motor has a slotted pulley now and that compressor uses a v belt.
Also, I do have a 30 amp circuit for the motor. But it's only 110 volt, it's for my camper. If I were a pro I'd have to be running 220 volts. If I could get it brought out to my garage I'd be happy. But I don't have the pockets for that right now.

As far as conventional, maybe I ought to get a conventional air cap. There is one produced for my gun. it reduces the cfm to 9.9.

In my research I have found recommendations to spray the epoxy primer through a 14 to 18 tip. If My 15 will put it on the truck I could be good since the smaller tips run a smaller cfm.
Hmm, wcgw? Lots, right?
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3repete View Post
As far as conventional, maybe I ought to get a conventional air cap. There is one produced for my gun. it reduces the cfm to 9.9.

In my research I have found recommendations to spray the epoxy primer through a 14 to 18 tip. If My 15 will put it on the truck I could be good since the smaller tips run a smaller cfm.
Hmm, wcgw? Lots, right?
Getting the conventional cap for the gun you have now would be a good way to go, IMO. You can play around with both and see what you like. I think you may find that the conventional really doesn't use that much more material to get the same finish quality and that it just 'feels' better.

I don't think that smaller tips will necessarily use less air, but regardless, a 1.5 will be perfect. In fact I think you will find that thinning the epoxy the 20% or whatever is allowed on the product sheet will make life much easier.

Are you using Kirker epoxy or something else?
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:58 PM
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I hate to admit it but I bought the pitch, oops i mean primer, from Eastwood. Mainly due to all the documentation and usage examples I could find online.

Thankfully I have a body shop that I do some work for, to get some help from. Plus the folks on this forum.
I was going to inside paint everything I could, weld it up and do a wand treatment with anti rust. My body shop guy insists on giving me panel adhesive so I can be sure the interior of the panels will be corrosion resistant. It's good to have help!

I'm no pro, but I did a short course at the GM body program and some apprentice time in 2 shops before embarking on a different path.

I have not shot paint from a gun in decades, and then only a little. But I am excited to try and figure this out.

Another question. Should I get my reducer from the same source as my paint?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2018, 04:56 PM
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Some people think that the Eastwood products are Kirker, actually. Same with what you can get from Summit Racing. I've also read that they (Eastwood and Summit) are actually Sherwin Williams instead. I've used both Kirker labeled epoxy and Summit's and couldn't tell any difference.

Regardless of which product they are relabeling, I am confident that they are both relabeling the same exact product:

https://www.eastwood.com/images/pdf/50244zp_msds.pdf
https://static.summitracing.com/glob...d_09152008.pdf

Interestingly, the matching document to these does not show up on Kirker's website. Instead it says "coming soon" and I kind of wonder if that is a tactic.

I think you would be wise to get the reducer from Eastwood as well, but down the road you may find that other sources are cheaper under a different label for most things.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwighty390 View Post
Some people think that the Eastwood products are Kirker, actually. Same with what you can get from Summit Racing. I've also read that they (Eastwood and Summit) are actually Sherwin Williams instead. I've used both Kirker labeled epoxy and Summit's and couldn't tell any difference.

Regardless of which product they are relabeling, I am confident that they are both relabeling the same exact product:

https://www.eastwood.com/images/pdf/50244zp_msds.pdf
https://static.summitracing.com/glob...d_09152008.pdf

Interestingly, the matching document to these does not show up on Kirker's website. Instead it says "coming soon" and I kind of wonder if that is a tactic.

I think you would be wise to get the reducer from Eastwood as well, but down the road you may find that other sources are cheaper under a different label for most things.
I believe they are the same products also. Similar products, packaging, colors etc. The tech sheets I've looked at are almost identical. The primers work ok, just not a fan of the color/base or clears.
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:58 AM
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Back to CFM...
I just took out my fresh hose and dryer to run them. I was thinking I'd clear some of the outgassing that comes with new rubber and plastic stuff.
Then I realized I could check my compressor output for the paint gun with my dryer regulator.
So I regulated the compressor line a little below it's max at 90 psi, I set my wall dryer/regulator at 40, then 20. Then I ran the line wide open with just a fitting and no device. At 40 the compressor kept up with a gradual pressure increase. At 20 it kept up fine.
I think I'm good. we'll see how it goes.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:04 PM
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I own a refinishing business which requires special portable compressors. The compressor is basically a hi quality vacuum motor. If your shop compressor craps out you can always reverse the hose on your shop vac, do a little shade tree engineering to connect the hose and keep going. The pressure at the gun is controlled by a valve on the hose, no gauges needed. Adjust the spray pattern by spraying on masking paper. After you spray a few things for practice you may find it's not as complicated as it seems at the beginning. We use a lot of acrylics and epoxy finishes. It's basically pressure, distance and speed.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Geriatric Mutant View Post
I own a refinishing business which requires special portable compressors. The compressor is basically a hi quality vacuum motor. If your shop compressor craps out you can always reverse the hose on your shop vac, do a little shade tree engineering to connect the hose and keep going. The pressure at the gun is controlled by a valve on the hose, no gauges needed. Adjust the spray pattern by spraying on masking paper. After you spray a few things for practice you may find it's not as complicated as it seems at the beginning. We use a lot of acrylics and epoxy finishes. It's basically pressure, distance and speed.
Have you actually done this with an automotive paint gun?

I can't imagine that a shop vac can create 25-40 PSI, regardless of the CFM it might flow.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dwighty390 View Post
Have you actually done this with an automotive paint gun?

I can't imagine that a shop vac can create 25-40 PSI, regardless of the CFM it might flow.



We're using Graco Edge 2 spray guns and turbine/compressors. We refinish bathtubs, tile and countertops and yes, I've personally replaced motors in the turbines with a replacement vacuum motors and sent my techs back to work. It worked just as well as a factory fresh turbine. We spray virtually the same acrylics as found in a body shop and the finish lays down like glass.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:34 PM
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When I painted the car in my avatar I used an Eastwood Concours Pro gun which claims to be 6.5cfm. I ran it at 30-35psi regulated with a diaphragm regulator at the input to the gun. My compressor is a single stage, but 3 cylinders, on a 120gal tank. When using a 24oz cup on the gun the compressor would cycle on about 30secs before the paint ran out, and a was done refilling before I got the paint reloaded.

My shop is plumbed in 3/4" MaxLine, to a filter drier, then 3/8 hose to the gun.
Needless to say I had very little pressure fluctuation at the gun.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2018, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Geriatric Mutant View Post
We're using Graco Edge 2 spray guns and turbine/compressors. We refinish bathtubs, tile and countertops and yes, I've personally replaced motors in the turbines with a replacement vacuum motors and sent my techs back to work. It worked just as well as a factory fresh turbine. We spray virtually the same acrylics as found in a body shop and the finish lays down like glass.
So to clarify -- it looks like you are now saying that you replaced the *MOTOR* in your turbine with the *MOTOR* from a vacuum. Along with this, you are using a spray gun designed to work with a turbine sprayer. What PSI does the turbine output while you are spraying?

You said "yes" to "just reversing a shop vac and spraying with an automotive paint gun" but then gave an example that is not that, from what I can tell.
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