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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 01:37 PM
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la di da di do de de da da dum dum...

hey, i got an idea, take the lounge off the front page, it'd save on space, it wouldn't be there to attract miscreants, and the people who know would know it was there, and those in the know, would know that was the place. you know?

doo be doo be doo......

bla bla bla......

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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 01:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazy larry
la di da di do de de da da dum dum...

hey, i got an idea, take the lounge off the front page, it'd save on space, it wouldn't be there to attract miscreants, and the people who know would know it was there, and those in the know, would know that was the place. you know?

doo be doo be doo......

bla bla bla......
LOL!

yeah how bout we make a special secret hidden entrance to the lounge. Like click on the hr.com logo in the top corner to enter the lounge. If the newbs figure it out than great for them, if they dont, oh well, we have enough posters in the lounge anyways (including me)........





Mike
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nightfire
[B]LOL!

yeah how bout we make a special secret hidden entrance to the lounge.
now your talking.

click on the moose.

maybe we should put a lizzard in the logo?
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon
To re-iterate, hopefully, it will never end. Ghetto Jet -- I would appreciate it if you would exert more effort in reading my initial posts.
It wasn't your posts that brought on that question, it was the statement from BBB, who had the inside scoop until about a month ago. But if say it won't end, then it won't end.

Jon, I have an idea that I think is pretty good.

I understand wanting to get more technical, maybe the lounge shouldn't be viewable by browsers or new members until they hit a certain post count. That should weed out some trolls from joining and people who have nothing to contribute technically.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 03:03 PM
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Good idea -- I'll keep it in mind. Actually, that's what we did with the Dump -- you need 10+ posts to see it. There are some other Lounge modifications we can make, such as removing Lounge posts from the "daily active topcs" and "new posts lists". We'll see where this current modification takes us, and we'll go from there.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon
Good idea -- I'll keep it in mind.
Cool.

hey can I get a post credit for that idea? lol
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon
The post count is useful. That's why it's remaining. It doesn't mean you're better or worse -- it's just a ROUGH TOOL for newer members to analyze technical knowledge/seniority/reliability on this board.
I think you're on the right track with this Jon, but I disagree with your definition. The length of the membership should denote seniority (listed also on each user's readout). This is the best judge of seniority.

You're doing a lot of speculating over a number that's definition varies from person to person. The ONLY thing it DIRECTLY measures is verbosity, and even then, a post-per-day count is a more accurate tool.

My issue is that I think you're presupposing that members are going to use the post count as a "tool" in the way you've designed. You've talked about "knee-jerk" reactions before Jon, think of yourself as a new member.

The truth is the post-count is a very "rough" tool, even as you described it. Its also an erroneous tool to use to really make any judgment about the quality of advice you're going to get from somebody. Take me for example: I have almost as many posts as the top posters on this board, yet willy's has probably 30 years more experience than I!

If you need a tool to measure the quality or extent of somebody's knowledge, an amalgamation of posts from different forums is really a poor tool, especially for somebody who is scanning this info quickly.

I would even contend that age, (dare I say it???!!) is a better tool for a ROUGH idea of how knowledgeable a member is. Again, roughly. The other word you used is reliable, but numerically I would reiterate that a post-per-day readout would be more useful.

In the end I don't care about post counts (thus the reason I have denounced their usefulness in my above posts, I'm sure I'll get flamed for "whining," none the less ). Just trying to give you another objective perspective-

K
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 03:16 PM
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Far from whining killer, it's a progressive thought.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 03:22 PM
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I can see your points killerformula. It is a really rough tool. Age is certainly less rough. However, age can easily be forged. This is why we didn't make it mandatory on the application form (there is a discussion somewhere in here about that issue).

There are numerous cases, like the one you mentioned, where post count is inaccurate as a measure of the aspects I discussed. However, I do believe it is useful in an overall, general sense.

Check out our top 100 posters. There are certainly some usernames on that list that I wouldn't consider our most knowledgeable tech guys, but OVERALL, it's a fairly decent ROUGH assessment, IMO.

I understand that, no matter what, the decision still sits uneasily with some people. But I do think it's "roughly" reasonable .
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 03:41 PM
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lol pretty "punny" jon lol

K
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 03:57 PM
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It all counts, even the BS!

What ever happened to the idea of a post count to a particular forum instead of a total post count? That way we see who's posting in the engine forum or who's the real trans guys are and paint and body and so on. Or how about a total post count only in the Lounge and the individual counts in those particular forums? The lounge has as much relevance as do the other forums...guys get together in the garage and BS about all kinds of things...except say politics and religion of course!! There is relevance to the conversations in the lounge as much as anywhere else in hotrodders.com. I'm not always thinking engine building Even if I'm engine building. There should be a relaxed atmosphere for the lounge to flourish too. I find it fun there...nothing serious or mind boggling!!


Tazz


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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 04:14 PM
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Here's a thought. . . . .

If people just post to get attention and want credibility, then won't slicing out Lounge posts only encourage them to flood the technical section with crap just to boost their post number just to look good?

AND

If post numbers are there to extablish credibility, how do we know if the high poster is the one asking the questions, answering them, or just making thoughtless comments towards a technical question?



On a side note, I think it's kinda funny how we are discussing a subject right now that is for the benefit of the site in the lounge, and it doesn't count because only topics that benefit the site are counted.








MoocH
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 05:30 PM
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tm454 -- I thought the dual post count thing was a good idea too. I think I'll be adding it to the list of modifications for our next board version upgrade. I agree too that the Lounge does have relevance, and that's why it's there. Nothing's been deleted, and the atmosphere is pretty much still the same. Fun and relaxed is what we want in there, but we don't want it to be our meat and potatoes.

Quote:
Or how about a total post count only in the Lounge and the individual counts in those particular forums?
This too is a reasonable approach, and one that we might eventually try -- or incorporate into the dual post count notion. I understand that slicing the post counts was a hard-line measure.

k2mooch -- yes, this is one of the expected results. Tech forum mods are on the lookout for that. And, since they cover "tech" turf, the editing/Dumping standards are stricter, so we are on firmer ground.


Quote:
If post numbers are there to establish credibility, how do we know if the high poster is the one asking the questions, answering them, or just making thoughtless comments towards a technical question?
We don't know for certain. But it's still useful as a rough tool. Look at the list of top post counts. Do you find it useful as a rough tool?

Quote:
I think it's kinda funny how we are discussing a subject right now that is for the benefit of the site in the lounge, and it doesn't count because only topics that benefit the site are counted.
Yes, it's ironic . I had thought to start this thread in the Site Suggestions and Help forum. That way, everyone's posts in this thread would count (most of them seem post-count-worthy to me). But I knew it would get more views in the Lounge, and since it does discuss the Lounge, it's not inaccurate to post it in here.


I can see some of the central themes we're grinding away at here.

Is there a way to numerically assess someone's "value" as a board member?

First you would have to try to define "value", which would be very difficult. Then you would have to decide what data you already have about members that could be computed into a representative number.

To pose a very simple example, let's say you decided that "value" meant: how long you've been here, how many posts you have, and how many tech posts you have. So, you could put the following pieces of information into a simple formula:

j -- number of days since join date
n -- number of posts
t -- number of tech posts

x -- our final, adjusted "post count number"


Your simple formula could look like this:

10j + 15n + 20t = x

In the formula above, I give the most weight to tech posts, followed by full post count, followed by seniority.

Obviously, a "real" formula would include more factors, such as:

--number of views received by threads in which you posted
--number of pics in your gallery
--number of entries in your journal
--number of links you posted in tech forums


And many, many others. You would weight each one accordingly, so if someone, say, posted 50 pics in their gallery, their score wouldn't jump too high.

Once you had a basic formula, you would run it against your database, to see how people scored. Then, you would adjust your formula until you thought it produced reasonable results. You might want to group the counts together -- for example, a 1500 and a 1590 would both read "1500". That way, you wouldn't be trying to be so exact.

There are some boards that use prefab systems similar to the example above. And there are boards that use what is known as a "karma"-type system, where users score and rate each other. I've checked out many of them, and toyed around with building our own. It may be something we end up doing. But for now, I wanted to make a very basic change, and then take it from there.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 05:40 PM
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karma system lol. There are going to be some niiiiiice posters after you do that!

K
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2004, 05:48 PM
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The ultimate measure of value to the board would be to average a post rating for the user. Unfortunately, very few if any posts get rated by the users. Maybe there is a way to measure blood pressure or face temperature thru the monitor for each reader of each post?!
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