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-   -   Sikkens 242 (https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/sikkens-242-a-521317.html)

st3gamefarm 05-27-2019 12:59 PM

Sikkens 242
 
Straight mixing black Autocryl. The blackest black I've found to date.
Sikkens went away from this area years ago, and I've had to make do with ppg 9000, and 9300. (one's a tad grey, and the other is a bit brown) Still looking for a good pure black, black. Anyone know of any?

idrivejunk 05-27-2019 02:11 PM

'Cryl was good stuff. But you are comparing an intermix toner (242) to a universal black (9300). Try the strong mixing black in the intermix lineup of whatever brand you would like to compare, by itself. Sikkens just didn't make a universal gloss black.

idrivejunk 05-27-2019 04:10 PM

What to ask for when they say you can't do that
 
Autocryl was a single stage intermix paint. As such, any toner could be technically used alone just like a mixed color. But some of the toners may not cover or hold out well by themselves. Black is an exception.

So now, if you approach a paint counter with this request and are told that the mixing toners cannot be used without other clear ingredients such as binder added...

Ask for any solid black paint code, to be mixed substituting the main black toner for any other color toner which is called for in that formula. This applies to basecoat or single stage mixes and assures proper product performance while keeping the color as black as it can be.

Hipster_G 05-27-2019 04:39 PM

Standox is the blackest black I know of and the single stage rivals the bc/cc. Pretty stuff.


Spies is also very brown looking.

Most mixing systems I've messed with had a HS black toner and a carbon black.

I used to mix black for all-overs as IDK suggests, Hs black toner, binder, and a couple drops of blue.

st3gamefarm 05-27-2019 07:34 PM

I'm just looking for a good SS toner that can be used solo, that is black, without having to add blue. Global BC has a pretty nice black, but it's not single stage.

idrivejunk 05-27-2019 08:23 PM

Its gonna be tough finding that nowadays, I think. Dedicated automotive single stage intermix paints in a good quality, that is. Can't think of one but I have been out of the loop for some time. I don't even know if Deltron can be mixed as single stage anymore but it used to be about as simple as pouring DMD649 instead of DBX695. Maybe some decent brand still uses one set of toners for both S/S and B/C.:confused:

I don't know how dark the SPI black is, comparatively, but it would be worth asking about. Next best thing is just use pure black base and clear it, I reckon.:drunk: Wheres that bite the bullet smiley when you need it?

Hipster_G 05-27-2019 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3gamefarm (Post 4674869)
I'm just looking for a good SS toner that can be used solo, that is black, without having to add blue. Global BC has a pretty nice black, but it's not single stage.


I thought Global could be mixed in single stage much like DBC and concept SS's.


Most systems that use acrylic toners can be used to mix base or ss off the same toners with the binders being the difference unless I'm just totally missing something here, but things have changed quite a bit.

Sikkens with it's polyester base toners is/was it's own animal.

st3gamefarm 05-28-2019 08:34 PM

The only Global I'm familiar with is BC. DBC, and DBU are also proprietary DBC is base, and DBU is/was single stage. Two seperate racks of toners. DCC took the place of DBU.

st3gamefarm 05-28-2019 08:36 PM

Even the blackest DCC toner isn't as black as 242. It requires some blue to be added.

idrivejunk 05-28-2019 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3gamefarm (Post 4675059)
The only Global I'm familiar with is BC. DBC, and DBU are also proprietary DBC is base, and DBU is/was single stage. Two seperate racks of toners. DCC took the place of DBU.


You got me snookered, back in my day Deltron was called DAU in single stage and DBU was basecoat, mixed from the same bank of DMD___ toners. Last time I used it myself, it was DBC. Times change plenty.:drunk:

idrivejunk 05-28-2019 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hipster_G (Post 4674889)
I thought Global could be mixed in single stage much like DBC and concept SS's.


Most systems that use acrylic toners can be used to mix base or ss off the same toners with the binders being the difference unless I'm just totally missing something here, but things have changed quite a bit.

Sikkens with it's polyester base toners is/was it's own animal.

Thats the first I ever heard of them having polyester based toners. And I ran the Sikkens branch in Dallas for awhile and attended every class they had, and shot it daily in a busy shop for a couple years.:embarrass

st3gamefarm 07-21-2019 07:47 PM

I used Sikkens exclusively for many years, until they took the good old tried and true Autobase, and changed it .
After the change, it didn't match anymore. They left the area shortly thereafter.

Hipster_G 07-21-2019 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrivejunk (Post 4675085)
Thats the first I ever heard of them having polyester based toners. And I ran the Sikkens branch in Dallas for awhile and attended every class they had, and shot it daily in a busy shop for a couple years.:embarrass


Sikkens reps came in and set the system up and spent a week there. That's what they were telling us. That the base was made from polyester resins opposed to acrylic resins. This was back about 2002 or so. Very time window recoat sensitive stuff.

It may have been one of those "new and improved" products from Sikkens that didn't stay on the market long.

John long 07-21-2019 11:37 PM

I have personally not used SPI Black but the owner states his Black is made with nothing but the blackest towner that exists and no tint. Barry has never told me anything that wasn't true and every product of his I have used, I have been 100% pleased with. If he says it is the blackest black on the market, I believe him.

John

idrivejunk 07-22-2019 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hipster_G (Post 4685269)
Sikkens reps came in and set the system up and spent a week there. That's what they were telling us. That the base was made from polyester resins opposed to acrylic resins. This was back about 2002 or so. Very time window recoat sensitive stuff.

It may have been one of those "new and improved" products from Sikkens that didn't stay on the market long.


Hmm. Could be, thats after my time. Just barely. Autobase Plus is whats on my car, with Lesonal clear. Plus came out just after I painted for a living and yeah I was bodymanning so would not have paid much attention. Just whipped me up a purple. Shot my GP in like Feb of '02. Funny though, me acting like they never had it but it might be on my ride.:embarrass:confused:

Who knows? I know we just did a 59 Pontiac black with the waterborne PPG strong black toner. A visit to the Day's Work thread (that was Grandpas favorite chaw) will get you a visual on that, just a couple pages back from current. Its pretty darn black but I am no aficionado of blackest blacks. I drive dirty WA-8555 cars now.:thumbup:


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