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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:01 AM
55 Tony's Avatar
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I do have a couple Q-jet cores and I could do a mod to make one into an 850, it's an 800 now. Makes it less streetable, but it would be a good test to see if a bigger carb would help. The mod is written out in a Cliff Ruggles Q-jet book. Would be nice to try that carb from Dfish if we could get together some time.


No haven't tried open headers. I don't have much rubber left on the slicks so I don't have much testing to do before getting new ones, which I'm not sure I want to do if I'm going to quit going to the track.

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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfish1247 View Post
Since you're using a qjet, I'd think that's holding you down some. They can take a car into the 10's, but they need some real lovin to do it. So you might see about getting it worked over for your engine specifically. Or ditch it and try a 850dp holley, more people can help you out with those. That's the least invasive thing I can think of, your funky timing thing don't help matters either, but if it runs good, leave it be.

What ET do you think you should be running now vs before?


If you're serious about wanting an aftermarket block, why not look into the best intake ever designed for a tri five big block car or any car truthfully, the belt driven intake. It''ll cost more than an aftermarket block and rotating assembly when all is said and done( forged guts, dish pistons, 4 stud not bolt caps, etc) but you'll have power to spare. You can't tell me the aluminum lung hanging out of the hood isn't sweet. And the only whine men love to hear, quite a few do women as well too.

Above sounds good unless you're broke like me.

Bigger stroke means different oil pan to clear that stroke, I'd make sure something is available for your car before committing to a bigger stroke engine, aftermarket block or not. And you still have to get all of it to work together correctly.


Eric, that carb is gone. You got me by a few seconds,hehe.

My best run before the new heads was 7.77. With the new heads I couldn't hook (the track may have been too hot for my slicks?) and my 60' time went down but add the extra .200 or .300 and I'm at 8.051 my best time with the new heads. Skip seemed as if my 60' was great at 1.95 and asked me if I meant 2.95? No, I've run lower 60' when I could hook, can't find those slips right now. I was hoping to get into the 7.3-7.5 range.

I wasn't thinking an *aftermarket* block, no money in the budget for that. I haven't priced blowers but I think they are out of my range also. ALTHOUGH, my girlfriend finally got to the track with me and when she heard some turbo's and how fast they were she started asking me how much they cost. Sounded like a hint to me, but I don't know where I'd put them. (gotta have twins) I don't think I could cut a hole in my hood for a blower, but a glass one no problem.

That sucks the carb is gone, wish I could have tried it. I do have a Holley 800 double pumper that I could try.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:12 AM
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i'm not thinking the carb necessarily needs to be bigger, just something other than a Q-Jet. If you've got a 800 DP, I'd give it a try

Your sixty foot on slicks ought to be in the low1.6's high 1.5's range IMO.

if you do buy new drag tires, get something smaller in diameter, 27-28"....with 4.10 gears you don't have enough gear for 30" tire....4.10 is barely enough for 28".

On your launch, do you stall up against the converter as tight as it will go without creep at the start line, or do you just push it up a few hundred rpm above idle to prevent bog and flash into the converter at launch??

Shift RPM?? Finish line RPM, and in what gear??
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:18 AM
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The Holley btw is a 6211 spread bore, and now that I think of it, something is wrong with the secondaries because I had 99 jets and it was still lean at WOT. I forget what I tried on it but didn't fix it. Now I do recall checking the air bleeds but didn't find a problem. It had worked for me but something seemed to happen sitting on the shelf.


The tires are 28's and that's what I have in my summit wish list, but different tires, m/t instead of Hoosiers. They take more air and are supposed to be better handling at higher speeds. Also supposed to be a compound that is better for no-prep. The m/t's get a little wild down at the far end. I had looked into smaller tires but don't think they have what I want any smaller.



On launch I've tried all different rpm's without much difference, no worry about the q-jet bogging. Shift at 6K, finish line rpm I don't know but I'm in third.
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:37 AM
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Is it true that with higher compression ratio's you can run bigger heads and bigger cams? That is the one thing Skip kept saying that my compression ratio is too low. Although it's 9.8 according to the Wallace racing calculator, and my cam says at least 9.5, stall 2800, range 2500 to 6200. I could up the shift point again, I guess if it didn't fly apart yet then it should hold up.
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 09:50 AM
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Higher compression is used to offset the low end power lost to reverse pumping/late intake closing...but at the same time also helps top end due to the added squeeze also making up for less cylinder filling due to less time available to fill the cylinder the higher the rpm goes.

I just noticed you mentioned having lost 2 to 3 tenths in the 60 foot the last time at the track...if that is correct it equals 2.5 to 4 tenths in the 1/8 mile and 3.5 to as much as 5 tenths in the 1/4 mile. What is lost in the 60 really badly affects the overall time.

Have you done timing changes at the track?? Reason I ask is I've had a couple of friends do the "twist the distributor and time it by ear and how good it feels" out front of the house the day before a track outing.....then get to the track and find a major chunk of ET has been lost. Worst one was a mid 12 second 1/4 mile 351 Cleveland 4V head powered Mustang, Dude timed it by how powerful it felt out in front of the house only to have it run a 13.60 the next day, a more than 1 second loss.
What you lose from mid rpm and up more than offsets the great feel of how overadvanced timing feels in low gear.
I'm wondering if you aren't also being fooled by the "butt dyno" and have the timing overadvanced and killing what the car is capable of. The midrange and up loss is almost impossible to feel while the low end boost from a lot of timing is easily felt and that can really fool you.

Io just have the feeling there are a couple of not obvious things hiding in there holding you back....it isn't the slight compression loss
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 11:04 AM
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Back a few posts I mentioned that it wasn't hooking. I think the slower 60' was due to that. The track may have been too hot? I really didn't pay attention to how far I was going while spinning till it hooked, but it was a lot. Just now I called Hoosier to ask them if heat was the problem and left a voicemail. For a burnout I had tried from just barely spinning them to smoking them and it didn't seem to make much of a difference. If you happen to know their tires, these have a D06 compound which are a middle of the road which from what I've read is good for a heavy car with an automatic.
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 12:28 PM
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1.95 60' is not good, Eric pretty spot on where you should be there.

What strip did you go to?

You can get away with higher compression, but from what I've read 10.75:1 with aluminum heads is about it using pump gas, and you'll need a rather hefty cam to match so it doesn't ping to death. 110+ octane, you can go higher of course, but ouch money wise.
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2019, 01:03 PM
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It is a no-prep track almost in Newport "English Mountain Raceway". It's big time Small Time!


I hear you on the octane, I can get 93 at a couple places and 92 all over, but who knows what the future holds for octane?
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2019, 06:22 AM
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I went over the Holley 6211 and installed it to see if there is any improvement, but in the forecast is a lot of rain. It's clear right now but I have to take the dog and the doglette to the vet. Then drive 120+ miles round trip to pick up my tractor. We'll see if it stays clear long enough for the track to open since I still have the slicks on it, and my butt dyno doesn't work well, especially with the mechanical secondaries of the Holley it can be very deceiving.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2019, 08:30 PM
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Using the calcs - 7.77 equals a 12.31 in the quarter.


I had a 3000 pound '66 Chevelle with 5.13 gears, 29 inch tire, TH400, a garbage convertor that was at most 3000 stall. I can't lay my hands on my records from that car right now but if I remember correctly 1.40-1.45 60's were the norm. The car ran pretty consistent 12.05-12.10s, on the button with a 150 kit, the car would go 11.96-97. The problem I have here is this was an iron head 331 small block with a 780 vacuum carb, a Cam Dynamics solid cam and some cheap speedway headers. Torque was a joke. You have a bunch of cubes and massive torque in comparison so I have to question if the combo has gone off the rails somewhere? I know you said that you dropped some compression with the new heads but it almost sounds like smog motor territory. Maybe the 92/93 fuel is too much octane. Maybe the cam needs to be moved, I assume it is degreed to the card at this point. I don't think the carb is even close to the issue. Maybe the heads nees a cut?
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:06 AM
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First off, the 7.77's were with the old heads and hooking great. New heads were running 8.05 but it wasn't hooking, 60' was 1.95 but again not hooking. I asked but no one responded to my question of the possibility of the track being too hot. It was sunny and in the high 80's. I think, but I'm not sure, if it had been hooking it would have been running about the same or at least a little better than the old heads.
The cam is advanced 2*, which was done when it had 3.42 gears and an almost stock converter.

The best I could measure the deck height was about .020, it was tough to measure since the only flat part of the pistons is on the inner and outer sides, so I measured both and averaged them. I couldn't measure above the wrist pins due to the dome. I just noticed now, they updated the piston info at summit and it now says .025" deck clearance, it didn't say that when I bought the pistons, a tech at speed pro told me after the fact. I did notice on the right side of the block I could read some type of number stamped in the front of the deck surface, so if anything was taken off the deck it wasn't much. The static compression ratio with the old heads was lower than I thought, found that after cc'ing them. The current setup is at about 9.75:1 If it matters, the cam calls for 9.5:1 or more.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2019, 07:45 AM
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Normally when we are talking about a slick track and no bite it's simply cold or minimal prep. I guess about the only thing you could do would be to compare notes with friends at the track and see if they fell off their normal too.



I raced Super Stock for a bit with a partner that owned the '55 Sedan Delivery. The engine was punched out to 292 and we had to use stock heads but they were reworked a bit from out of Ohio. I don't remember the exact compression ratio but factory numbers put it at 10.5 - honestly don't think we were close to that as we had to mix race fuel with unleaded to get it to perform. Straight race gas would turn it into a pig but a mix of 25% race to unleaded made a huge difference.



There is one trick you can play using a compression tester. Understand that after you do this, you need to verify valve to piston clearance. You said you already took some readings. Move the cam a couple of degrees, always turn the engine over by hand at least two revolutions if you think you're close on clearance but check the compression numbers. Keep at it until you get the highest compression numbers and you have adequate clearance. Typically the best compression numbers are going to indicate the best position for the cam. You may have to make everything else work with it but that's part of the game.
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:45 AM
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Most everyone appeared to have no traction problems, mine I could hear it screeching for (this is a guess) maybe 30' and I could REALLY feel when it finally hooked. There had been other days where I could feel and maybe hear a sort of "controlled" slip with little screech and more like a bark. I did just remember that my tire pressure gauges got mixed up, although I kept letting more air out until it got squirrelly at the far end. Other days I was hooking much better when temps were cooler, even on the cold side like 55*. This past weekend was a wash but I'll try to go when it's cooler, maybe friday night. Saturday night can get too busy for a lot of test and tune runs which is all I do for now. These tires are almost shot and if I do get new tires and keep this up, I'm going to try some M/T's that have a little stiffer sidewall that keep you going straight when going faster. They are supposed to bite even with higher tire pressures also.
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:52 AM
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As for the compression and cam timing, which way normally decreases the piston to valve clearance? Advance or retard.
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