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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2019, 07:39 AM
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Back to the skip white heads

I finally got confirmation in an email that the exhaust ports are raised 1".


He also answered a question I asked a few emails back asking how much HP increase from stock heads. He said "the alum. heads will pick up to 30 to 50 hp." Now is this guy also another idiot there or is it possible that is all the increase I might get?


They have this in the description of the heads:

The Procomp bbc heads are perfect for 427, 454, 496 and 540 street/strip engines. These are what we use on our 505 and 555 bbc engines. They will produce up to 680 hp with the proper cam and intake manifold on pump gas. This is an outstanding trouble-free set of heads. Fully built, ready to install.


So is there something crappy about these heads and he's telling the truth or he doesn't know what he's talking about?

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:48 PM
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Virtually all of the aftermarket BBC aluminum heads are raised exhaust port....in fact I can only recall hearing about 1 Brodix model that isn't, from this same topic on another board....even the iron World Products Merlins and Dart Iron Eagles are raised port.

I think the guy you talked to is just being safe...so you don't call back like a mullet-head screaming about "how you didn't pick up 300 HP when you bolted this heads to your clapped out dumptruck mot'r in your Iroc Camaro". ().

All you have to do is look at the airflow numbers, the cam size, and the engine cubic inch to get a pretty good idea of power potential, modified a little bit here or there by compression ratio, intake and carb size, and exhaust size.

They're not a bad head, they're not AFR's cnc'd offerings or Brodix BB-whatevers but they're a good jump from any stock head. Comparable to Flo-Tek or Liberty or RPC and priced accordingly.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72 View Post
Virtually all of the aftermarket BBC aluminum heads are raised exhaust port....in fact I can only recall hearing about 1 Brodix model that isn't, from this same topic on another board....even the iron World Products Merlins and Dart Iron Eagles are raised port.

I think the guy you talked to is just being safe...so you don't call back like a mullet-head screaming about "how you didn't pick up 300 HP when you bolted this heads to your clapped out dumptruck mot'r in your Iroc Camaro". ().

Please don't make fun of my mullet or my 1978 Suburban smog motor .

Just kidding, I don't have enough hair for a mullet, and pretty much "unsmogged" it with pistons and cam.


I'll be pleased with 75 more hp. I'll be tickled pink if you also were over conservative and I get 125 more.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2019, 11:58 AM
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Rectangle port???

I was going fine ordering my heads till he tells me I should be getting rectangle ports with my cam (.578), and also that the Q-jet won't handle it. But I don't think there is a rectangle port intake that takes a spreadbore. Found an Offenhouser but it's NLA. The q-jet is 800cfm and I can do a mod by cutting out one booster ring that will make it a good 850cfm. I have a couple Q-jets here so I don't mind taking a chance on the mod.


I really do like running the q-jet, partially just because it amazes people they can run that well, a good bit because they don't boil over as easy for me as a Holley does, and from the little I know, I believe the small primaries are going to help it stay streetable. Is that right? Or on the right track?


So do I change everything and go rectangle ports with a square bore carb, or forget what he's trying to sell me and just buy what I had intended? And damn it's hard to get someone on the phone and I got lucky, doubt I'll get lucky again today, he's the only one on the phones today.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:29 PM
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Never Mind the last post

I'm too easily swayed by someone elses opinion and find purchasing parts like this really hard when someone throws in a curve ball. So I'm going back to the phone to see if I can get through to order what I set out to order.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2019, 04:12 PM
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Stay with your gut....you aren't turning enough RPM on your 454, or have enough cubic inches(490+) to take advantage of a rectangle port aftermarket head.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:53 PM
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Yes thanks. After I thought about it I figured that you or someone else would have already at least mentioned rectangle ports. They build a lot of 496 and 540 motors so that's all the guy probably knows about.
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:11 PM
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Unless big cubes or drag racing, stay with oval ports. That and the stock exhaust location are the main reasons I picked the race rite's from brodix for the 496 in my basement. Not the cheapest around, but hopefully be the least pita.

Out of curiosity, is there something wrong with the 781's or are you just itching to get aluminum heads? You've got something that works, would be a shame to tear it apart just to not physically notice much/ if any difference other than dropping 100lbs, shedding heat quicker, maybe running a hair higher timing, and lightening your wallet. Actually, doesn't sound too bad except that last part, lol.

Something else you'll probably run into is having new pushrods made.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:34 AM
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No nothing wrong with the 781's, in fact they run pretty darn well. I have around 400+hp according to 1/8 mile times and weight but I got bit by the bug. Hoping to get a bit more, than a little more hp. The old ones have the stock size valves and I was looking at getting some bigger valves in them and the machine shop told me I may as well get some better heads for as cheap as these are. He's heard a lot of good about them.

My current 3/8 rods are almost exactly the size they recommend/sell for use with these heads so I'm hoping they work.

They recommend using adjustable valve guides and I'm hoping it's not because their specs are off, I had put a set of Comp guides on the iron and they are much better than the factory ones. Perfect actually, so I'm hoping they work also here. I don't know if I'm being cheap or frugal, but if none are worn, I hope to swap the rocker studs over also which are newish also.

Bought a new manifold and slicks yesterday. If all goes well I may take a ride Monday to pick up the heads and whatever they remind me that I will need.


Oh, the exhaust will be a little work but the headers are already dented in at quite a few places already.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:21 AM
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Springs

Talked to the guy about the springs and I believe the weakest they have that will be good for my lift are what they call 394/141, 394 when compressed and I guess 141 loose.

Anyone know of some roller rockers close to 1.72:1 and polylocks that will fit under stock valve covers? I just realized my roller tip rockers may not handle that spring pressure. They are rated for max of 350lb open spring pressure. Stock valve covers are important due to the covers hitting the firewall. Passenger side is already hammered in a good deal. Tall covers would mean pulling the motor and a whole lot of fabrication and/or removing the heater. Maybe I'm trying to take my streetcar too far? Double thick gaskets will work. Or I've heard of the "cheater" covers that look stock but are just a little taller. That would suck though due to the M/T Chevrolet covers I'm working on getting ready.

I'm going to go over budget for sure with all the little stuff.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2019, 07:47 PM
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That roller tip rocker rating, if those are the type with a stock style pivot ball in them, is due to the pivot ball, and not the fact the rocker itself will break. The higher spring pressures tend to overload the ball and burn it up.

Those spring figures he gave you are probably open and seat pressures, but they are kind of useless unless you know what the seated height and open height those pressures are measured at.
As an example, you can have a spring that is 350 lb/in rate and is 400lb open at .600" lift, but if your cam is only .540 lift the actual open pressure is lower, 379 lb at .540" lift.

You can take the spring pressure figures and the lift they occur, and figure out the spring rate, then use that to figure out what the actual open pressure will be with those springs at your cams full lift.

Those type of rockers will tend to live a little better if already broken in at a lower pressure, which seems like you've already accomplished, and it also helps to use Crane "Cool Nuts" polylocks on them to hold more oil and promote cooling of the pivot ball...but those may not fit under a stock short valvecover.
The problem with roller rockers fitting under stock valvecovers isn't the rocker body's themselves, but that the associated poly locks stick up above them too high. Double gaskets or a valvecover spacer can solve that without being as tall as tall covers....the MT short covers are also a bit taller than a stock cover so that may help you also.

A fly in your pre install ointment is going to be the aftermarket typically raises the valvecover rail from stock height, to better prevent leaks and to prevent the dumping of oil on hot headers when covers are removed for race maintenance
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Old 04-13-2019, 09:42 AM
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He asked what lift I had so that makes me think he gave me the actual open pressure. I don't think the rockers will break. I know what you mean about breaking them in, they are all turned blue at the bottom from the heat but back then I inspected them and it looked like just a little more break in and they would be OK. Added assembly lube again and ran it. They have run possibly 20,000 miles like that.


Actually one did wear the grooves of the ball, saw that when I was changing seals not that long ago. I put in a used ball and I've only put a hundred or so miles on it. It seemed to fit and slide pretty nice without oil. Nothing looked scored/streaked so I was hoping that 1 ball wasn't hardened or something for some reason? I put it together with assembly lube and ran it a bit with some cool down times in between. I haven't checked it again.


Looking at a picture of the new head, it does look the the cover will sit a bit higher. I don't think enough to cause a cover clearance problem for me, and if it does, it won't be anything like tall covers. I just may buy one roller rocker and see if they will fit. I saw some polylocks that say they are lower profile.
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:23 AM
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Alum. Head Bolts

Picked up my heads and some other items.
The head bolts they sold me say they are for a Mark V , not a Mark IV but they said they will work. Will they? What should I look for? ARP 135-3607. I see lots of different choices just in ARP for IV's at Summit and I'm wondering if these will work or not?

They don't list a choice for pro comp speed master.


Also I'm going to try all my old stuff, guides, rocker studs, rockers to see if it all goes together. Right now reading their instructions I'm thinking I should have got the adjustable guides. Wish I would have seen this paper yesterday. Says the rod holes may need more clearance. Get what you pay for...
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:22 AM
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You will find that the more aftermarket stuff yuo buy, the more it all has to be test fitted and "tweaked" to ensure it will all fit together and play nice.
A whole different ballgame that just bolting together stock or stock replacement type stuff, where you can just toss it together without checking much of anything and be okay in the end.

Even the best, like AFR or Dart's top of the line stuff needs to be test fitted in every case and checked for clearance, not uncommon to need to use adjustable guideplates and/or have to shave the edges of the casting for pushrod clearance. It is far too common an issue that you hadn't expect to just drop them out of the box and bolt them on with the expectation that everything will clear just fine.

It doesn't have to be full daylight clearance all around the pushrod, a very slight contact of the pushrod with the casting can actually be helpful, akin to putting your finger on a vibrating guitar string to quiet it, it can help stabilize the pushrod and cancel harmonics. Light enough contact that all it will do is polish the surface of the pushrod, polish the black oxide off from it.

On the head bolts, check your stock bolts in the stock head, to measure how much of the threaded end protrudes through the head(including gasket so you know how deep it was anchored into the block....you want the new stuff to at least match that much threaded into the holes in the block.
Typical different lengths will be the long ones at each exhaust port, and the ones under the valvecover that go down between the valvesprings and paired intake ports.

Shouldn't be any real difference in Mark IV, V, or VI as far as head bolts go, changes will be for aftermarket head thickness differences. Actual differences between the generations affecting interchangeability are water openings in the deck and style of rocker arm retention.

You can always cut and weld the stock guideplates, the OG way we used to deal with them....but I would hope you are at least using 3/8" diameter pushrods and not that flimsy 5/16" stuff they went to in the smog years.
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Old 04-17-2019, 11:45 AM
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Easy way to check is find one of the 4 really long bolts and drop it in the very end of the head(right beside #1 exhaust valve) it shouldn't stick up more than 5/8" before threading in. Short bolts go below exhaust ports, rest go everywhere else. Other 3 really longs go in the other tip ends of the heads, unless the castings vary wildly from stock heads, then I'm of no help. I see I was beaten to the punch by Eric,lol.

I found out I ordered the wrong head bolts by one of the really long bolts sticking 3" out of the hole,whoops. Mine called for stock replacement bolts 135-3601 p/n. Which stuck roughly 1/2" out before threading in.


I don't remember seeing if your old heads were ported or not, if not, I'd be curious to see if your car winds up a tad lazier off the line. Their heads claim a 300cc volume port. I guess at some point, no matter the shape, volume is volume.

Btw, how was the customer service?
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