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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2019, 01:28 PM
55 Tony's Avatar
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Just opened the bolts. Inside for lunch so didn't compare them yet. Looks a lot like the old ones with washers added. Just wonder why even on the box it says GenV.

Got 1 head off, the pistons look like it's been burning oil but I'm not, well maybe a little. They are black, but not thick and "crusty". Didn't try cleaning them yet.


I want to check how far down the hole they are, will a simple caliper with a depth gauge/rod work? It's a number I didn't write down or lost when I built it. And now that I know what cc the heads are I can stop guessing at the SCR.

The one rocker that had problems looks like it ran hotter yet. I'm ordering 1 new one. I see they sell replacement balls, I guess they can be a wear item? Worth getting a set? They are cheap but I don't know if I'm better off leaving them with their matched rocker is better? Shouldn't matter keeping the rockers in the same place does it? I'd like to keep an eye on the new one, they get real hot when breaking in and the driver side valve cover is easy to remove.

Oh the rods are good comp magnum's? and 3/8" I hope they will fit. Should I clean and use my old gaskets to test fit things and check clearance or use the new ones I'm going to pick up? (They are made for aluminum.) I guess that's enough questions.


Just saw the other post on checking the bolts, will do. Customer service was, well almost non existent. I forget who I dealt with, a pretty big guy, seemed very nice. Forget what it was but he asked the one other guy a simple yes or no question and he replied "I'm on lunch". I don't think Daniel who I spoke to on the phone was there, he was great on the phone. I sort of expected to see a parts counter with staff behind it. No, walked in and around, only door open was the big guy who was on the phone so I waited.


Oh crap I didn't send this yet, they sold me the wrong bolts. ARP says they should stick out of the head about 1.1". Some stick out only .43" and that's without a gasket. Waiting for a call back to see if they even have them. How can't you have them if you sell so many of these heads??????????????

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:19 PM
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i figured the service would be lacking. You must've talked with AL, did he have sleeve tattoos and call you "brother"?

Does the arp box say something like mk v or bowtie block?

Try calling pro comp and see what they say. .43 of a inch does seem a little short, all I can tell you is what went on with mine, they were all roughly 5/8" before threading them in.

While your dealing with the bolt issue, go ahead and chase the bolt holes in the block.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2019, 04:26 PM
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I don't know what to think now. Skippy's say 1/2" is fine, the ones that are shorter I should not use the washers. That sounds ****ty to me but the washers are about 1/8".



Calling ARP really had me more confused since they say the bolt should go into the block 1.1". BUT, the guy on the phone twice said "this is an aluminum block, right?" And twice I said no, aluminum heads on a cast iron block. So maybe the 1.1" is for an aluminum block?


I'm on hold with them again now, this guy told me 1.5 times the diameter which works out to about 5/8 minimum thread engagement. Told him about skipp's advice to delete the washer and he didn't like that. I gave him the depth of the block holes and he's now looking for a kit or something. At least this guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about, but I've been on hold for over 10 minutes.


Maybe I'm being too picky? I just don't want to strip the threads in the block!
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:09 PM
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Do not under any circumstance leave off the washer, you’re spreading the load to the entire bolt boss, plus arp puts them in the box for a reason, and it ain’t for decoration.

Just remember the flat side of the washer goes down against the head. The countersunk part goes against the bolt head.

You want as much thread engagement as possible. You shouldn’t need every last nanometer of thread for a non forced induction motor, but you don’t want 3 threads holding the head down either.

I’d call pro comp and ask them. They make the casting, so surely to god, they’d know. If not, take all that back and save up a little longer and get brodix heads, when I talked to them, I had zero questions.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2019, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfish1247 View Post
You want as much thread engagement as possible. You shouldn’t need every last nanometer of thread for a non forced induction motor, but you don’t want 3 threads holding the head down either.
My father, a tool and die maker, taught me that 4 threads of engagement on any size bolt will be as strong as a dozen threads of engagement.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2019, 07:24 PM
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4 isn't 3 now is it,lol. You're very lucky to have knowledge like that, I'm jealous.

But, 1/2" of a 7/16-14 bolt should be a few threads I'd guess, but I'm a married man, so I'm wrong most of time.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:59 PM
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Rocker arms can be moved to different locations, just the original balls should be kept with the rocker they are mated to...a lot like cam lobes and lifters in that regard.
I have no idea why they sell just new balls, seems like a good way to ensure failure sometime farther down the road.
Best practice with a new rocker is to install it on an intake valve, less heat transfer there than an exhaust valve location, so it has an easier break-in life.

As far as head bolts, .430" into cast iron, 7/16"-14 thread is not enough engagement, you'll risk stripping the threads out of the block. Plus it is only going to be .390" engaged once you add a head gasket...not nearly enough.
Are these the long bolts at the exhaust port outlet that are the coming out too short??
As Dfish posted, do not leave out the washers on aluminum heads, they act as a bearing during torque-up of the bolts and as a protector to prevent galling of the bolt seat in the aluminum head.

ARP lists 13 different head bolt kits for the BBC(and something like 40 different stud apps), so there must be a bunch of variations. You may need the DART sub-kit of 8 long exhaust bolts, #135-3605....or it may cross over to a completely different number as I can't find any actual dimensions on ARP's site(which totally sucks, by the way, all screwed up).

I'd suggest you measure head thickness/needed bolt length and then call ARP Tech.

If it happens that getting a longer bolt results in more than 5/8" engagement it doesn't matter, as the bolts go through to water jacket so there is room for them to be long just as long as you don't run out of threads on the shank before it gets tight.

Caliper with depth rod can be used to measure piston height in block Won't be perfect to the last .001", but it will be close enough.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2019, 10:49 AM
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Since my lifters are all leaked down now, do I need a pair of pushrod checker lifters or whatever they would be called? Basically a pair of solid roller lifters is what I'm thinking but don't know what they are called to find them.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2019, 12:27 PM
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As far as I know it is just a pair of solid roller lifters. You need to either find a pair with the same pushrod seat height in the lifter, or measure the difference between your hydro's and whatever solids you use and add or subtract as needed when figuring final pushrod length spec.

If your link bars are the type that allows a lifter to be removed from the pair, then you'd actually only need one individual solid roller lifter, as you are only checking one pushrod length at a time.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2019, 12:30 PM
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If you follow the Straub video, you only need a solid lifter if you are going to try to confirm the pattern width on the valvestem.

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Old 04-18-2019, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 Tony View Post
Since my lifters are all leaked down now, do I need a pair of pushrod checker lifters or whatever they would be called? Basically a pair of solid roller lifters is what I'm thinking but don't know what they are called to find them.

The tool is a "push rod length checking tool" it is nothing more than a push rod with a thread section that allows the length to be changed over a minimum at screwed together to a maximum just short of unscrewing the sections, these come in certain length ranges so you need to know a length range that comes within what you need.

The lifter must be solidified, that is about the top of its possible adjustment range. This can be accomplished by taking a hydraulic apart to stuff it with washers that support the push rod cup from fully up against the retainer to jus short of that as equal to the number of turns in terms of distance from the retainer when set at the adjusted turns you make on the adjusting nut. Another way to do this is buy a solid lifter that fits this engine, A third way is to buy a lifter replacment tool made for this purpose.

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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2019, 02:57 PM
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I know what a push rod length tool is, I was looking for the sudo solid lifter. Be nice if it had a 2.47" to seat but I'll have to make do with what I found.
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Old 04-19-2019, 03:58 AM
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This is a little old but I forgot to hit send.


Yes, I measured the depth of the holes and ARP found a set for me.

I can't do much now till I get two push rod checkers.

Checking piston height, how would you do it? My numbers are all over the place. I was thinking of putting the dial caliper on the block and swivel it from the deck to the piston. I'll try it anyway just to see how it compares with my other numbers.

Getting old sucks, had to make a ramp of sorts to get the iron head out of the engine bay to avoid denting the fenders. Went up over the radiator support. Last time I used the cherry picker (does anyone call them that anymore?) but that's a lot of extra work.
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Last edited by 55 Tony; 04-19-2019 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 04-19-2019, 05:42 AM
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Chilling Out

I let ordering parts and waiting for shipping, and getting the wrong parts get the best of me. Years ago I would order from Summit and even it was after midnight I got my parts the next day with the free shipping (basically from Atlanta GA to Knoxville, TN). Those days are long gone, it slowly got slower and slower to the point were an order placed as early as 9AM will almost always take 2 days and sometimes 3 days. I get pissed off and mad at the world. I'm finally telling myself to chill out, I don't have any say in when the parts come unless I pay for next day shipping, and that's too much. And I'm trying to tell myself that I have no deadline, it's done when it's done and I want to do it right. I just hope it rains every friday and saturday until it's done so I don't miss anything at the track
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:21 AM
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After all the craziness I've been getting into I thought I'd post some good news. It looks great for my old headers working with the raised exhaust ports. Biggest concern was the steering box but I have a few bolts in that header and it's not touching. I would like to pull some previous dents out, but they were pretty hard to hammer in, so they aren't going to come out easy, no way with a stud gun and slide hammer. I guess when I take the head out again I could try welding something more significant to it and then the slide hammer?. The one tube was really hammered to clear the steering box.

Header gaskets vs sealant? I've had the aluminum layered gaskets leak and blow out the center, I've loosened the headers and filled the area with gray RTV and it lasts pretty darn long. I wonder how it would work without any gasket?

The passenger side header clearance looks like it will be good with the new 2000 era GM starter. Although shimming it is a little tricky. The output shaft must be smaller diameter than the old ones, so the 1/8 drill bit trick doesn't work. Right now it's just a little tight, with no battery cable to it, just energizing the solenoid, the gear jumps into the teeth a little snug and doesn't fall out without a hint of a turn of the motor. It's way over the 1/8 clearance. My block must have been drilled/tapped off a bit because it always took a lot of shims to get it closer, and no the knurled bolts don't come near helping the situation.
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