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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:20 PM
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The best way I've seen dents removed from headers is to make a seal plate for the head flange to seal all 4 pipes, the a deal was made with a piece of PVC pipe and reducer bushings to hold a Schrader valve(tire valvestem) and that was clamped to the header collector with a turbo coldside connection pipe rubber sleeve. The header was pressurized, less than 30 psi I think, and the dent heated with a acetylene or MAPP gas torch to orange hot. as soon as it got hot enough the air pressure pushed the dent right back to the original tube shape. Looked like it had never been bashed.
You might look for it on YouTube, could be a video there.
Here you go...it is 150 psi though, I was wrong there:
Pretty slick and quite quick too.

I've not tried it, but a lot of racers I know swear by no header flange gasket at all, just Red High Temp RTV. With the flange right tight against the head the RTV is well supported and so thin it can't really burn and blow out.

I use my dial indicator and mag base to check deck height all the time, just like you've described. I always double and triple check, and its always been repeatable so I've never bought one of those fancy aluminum deck bridges that pro's always show in pictures.

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:55 PM
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I received the RIGHT set of head bolts today from Summit. The new set gives about 11/16 of thread without the gasket. I can't believe they are actually building motors with the short bolts..

The pressurized pipe trick looks great, but the 2 cycle pipes he shows are certainly a lot thinner than my header tubes. They took some seriously heavy hammering. I'd need a much hotter torch and probably much more air pressure.

Mailed the old bolts back to Skippy White.
rod length checkers should be here either Sat or Monday depending on whether or not FedEx treats me like a business address or a home address.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:02 PM
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The set of Ford 460 truck headers I actually saw being fixed were just common 180 PSI max upright air compressor and your typical acetylene torch....once the metal reached the orange point the dents pushed right out.
These were heavy 14 gauge L&L Products 460 Ford engine swap headers, nearly double the thickness of typical 18 gauge headers.....I was skeptical it would work too, but the guy had been a motocross racer and he already knew it would work.
Metal moves easily when it is nearly molten hot.

There are also some vids on YouTube using water, and let it freeze and using the expansion of ice push the dent out....but there are some who posted vids of it bursting the tube wide open elsewhere as you have no control over it.

What was the head bolt Part # you needed from ARP??...others may want to know and it could come up in a search
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Old 04-20-2019, 05:20 AM
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I have two or so problems with that. One, I'd have to raise the engine quite a bit to get the header out and that's a b!#%ch with my mounts. Two, I only have a cheap Berzomatic MAP torch (that's a big problem). They are cheap chinese headers but the tubes are really heavy gauge steel. They are without a doubt heavier than the Hookers they replaced. Also where they are smooshed, it would still have to stay that way for about 4" and I could only fix about 1.5 inches and still have them fit, so I just don't think it's worth the hassle. Mostly just for appearance not function.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the knowledge and maybe I'll use it someday, just not now. I suppose I could do it in the car, but without a doubt, the map torch would have to be upside down and they don't work well that way with the tank upside down. I should keep watching craigslist for a torch and TANKS, but I'm really running out of room since I also make my living in the garage/shop. I guess I could probably get away with smaller bottles, it sure would be handy. New tanks are friggen expensive!
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Old 04-20-2019, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfish1247 View Post
i figured the service would be lacking. You must've talked with AL, did he have sleeve tattoos and call you "brother"?

I think it was "Big Al" as the email address says, but I didn't notice any tattoos. If Skip sells as much stuff on ebay as it looks like, I'd think it would pay him to get a couple knowledgeable sales people. Even on the web page it tells you that they don't know anything about building engines, and it's true. And with the bolt fiasco, it seems like the guy building engines doesn't know much either. They claim that's what they use. I'm picturing some big blocks with heads flying off. Or at the very least blowing gaskets.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72 View Post
I use my dial indicator and mag base to check deck height all the time, just like you've described. I always double and triple check, and its always been repeatable so I've never bought one of those fancy aluminum deck bridges that pro's always show in pictures.

Do you do both sides of the piston (inner/outer) and average?
I think with these heads my DCR is going to go down, I hope not too much. I believe the 781's had been milled quite a few times. And I don't know if anyone who told me to beware of it is reading, but not a single sign of detonation on the pistons. I have an ear for knocks/pings. Here is a pic of the old heads, I wish I could have found a similar picture of a newish one to compare were the valve seat meets the surface. (also looks like cracks in the valve seat?) But it's been running that way.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2019, 09:26 AM
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Measurement gets taken at either 3:00 or 9:00 position so that you are directly above the wrist pin.

Get yourself a 30 or 60cc feeder syringe from the Pharmacy or Agri/Feed store and use an old CD to cover the chamber and CC the chamber in your 781's so you'll know where you are starting from.
Vaseline around valve margins and around the chamber on the deck to glue and seal the CD down.

Gotcha on the headers, just a note though, some of the YouTube vids show using propane or MAPP gas torches, just takes a little longer to heat. In case you ever decide you want to do it. Myself, if I was to do it I wouldn't even consider trying it in the car, headers would be out on the floor or table where I could get a good eye on the whole process.

Can you give the ARP bolt part # you ended up with??
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 Tony View Post
I received the RIGHT set of head bolts today from Summit. The new set gives about 11/16 of thread without the gasket. I can't believe they are actually building motors with the short bolts..

What was the part number of the correct set?
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2019, 05:50 AM
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arp 135-3603
Looks perfect. The two (or four) bolts for the holes with the locating pins are longer since the threads in the block are recessed. Had me fooled at first. Same bolts as Dart heads.

Waiting on push rod measure's. I got too exited I guess when FedEx said they were on the truck and will be delivered Saturday. No show. Delivery date online changed to Monday, no reason given.
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:36 PM
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Head Gasket Metal Ring

I noticed that the steel ring of my old gasket to the Skip White heads overhangs the hole in the head between two adjacent cylinders by about .030" which is almost half of the metal ring. This is because the casting of the new head isn't as thick between the two cylinders as compared to the old iron heads. I didn't try fitting the new gasket yet because I'd like to be able to return it so I don't think I can open the package. I did measure it and it looks like it will overhang about the same as the old one. The new one by the way has a "gasket bore" of 4.370. Is this asking for some blown head gaskets? If I order different gaskets I could get a larger bore size that would hopefully have the steel ring fully resting against the head instead of out in the combustion chamber. I hope all that makes sense. My compression is already going to go down a little with the new heads, and I realize a larger bore size will lower it a little more, but I'd rather not be changing head gaskets in the near future.
And why do they make the gasket cylinder holes such odd shapes anyway?
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Old 04-22-2019, 02:20 PM
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cc'ing new and old heads

I had everything I needed at home to cc the heads. Found the old 781's are 115.5cc's and the new ones are 118.5cc's. Old about 10:1, new about 9.75:1. Will I even notice the difference or I should say how much of a difference on a dyno would a difference of .25:1 make? Anything to worry about? I did read somewhere that even with higher priced heads it's good to have them milled or shaved or whatever you call a tiny bit off the bottom. Would it be worth having them milled and how much would it take to make a difference? Ah, I guess I'll probably just leave them as is and stay worried about the gasket question I posted.........



Just now my pushrod checker tools and solid lifter finally showed up. FedEx was supposed to be here on Saturday and they came late today. Driver said she has quite a few packages that were supposed to be delivered saturday but for some reason he didn't do it. I told her to let her boss know that I was pissed off not being able to work on it for an extra 48 hours. Damn, I'm just so impatient.
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:22 PM
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Increasing the compression ratio for additional power is governed by the “Law of Diminishing Returns”

That is....You gain more power when you increase the compression ratio from 9.5:1 to 10.0:1 than you do when you increase it from 10.0:1 to 10.5:1. I must use 25% VP C12, 105 octane race gas and 75% 92 octane premium.

The compression ratio on my 350 CI Chevrolet with 64 cc heads is 10.30:1. I could use 100% 92 octane premium if the engine had 10.0:1 compression ratio.
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Old 04-22-2019, 04:02 PM
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That small change in compression won't even be noticeable in the drivers seat, barely noticeable on an engine dyno and even there it will be tough to notice. It will be most noticeable at the lower end of the RPM range, once you get to 3500 rpm or so port velocity is high enough to get into some ram effect and the fact that the low rpm cylinder fill isn't compressed quite as much is no longer an issue.

Are you saying the head gasket almost exposes a water passage hole...or that it overhangs the shape of the combustion chamber in the area between the cylinders??
If it is the chamber width deal, this is common for many aftermarket heads, the chamber is wider to allow the typical larger valve sizes to not be shrouded and flow limited by the chamber wall. SBC and many others are the same way when you get into big valve sizes.
You'll need the 4.540" bore gasket.

Does your 454 block have the valve "clearance" eyebrow machined into the top of the cylinder, just above the top ring travel poin??t. All the actual high performance blocks were that way, the Rectangle port head engines like 375HP 396 L-78 and 450HP 454 LS-6.
It's not really a clearance notch, at least on the 4.250" bore blocks with 2.19" valve heads but an airflow notch to not limit the big valve flow....but it might actually be a clearance notch with bigger valve diameters and altered valve angles.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...vt=0&eim=1,2,6
https://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/...re-notches.jpg

You might want to look over this info, your exact bore overhang question is 1/4 way down the page, AFR heads and 4.280" bore.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com...rs.2630/page-2

Last edited by ericnova72; 04-22-2019 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:33 AM
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The fel pro 1027 gaskets I used don't interfere anywhere that I noticed. But, mine is 4.310 bore though. And that kick out in the gasket ring is normal.

Did you get the jesel length checker? I used it instead of buying a kit that cost $80+.

After all this trouble, we better get a video of the back bumper dragging the ground. But, I'll begrudgingly settle for a 3 gear long burnout.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2019, 05:57 AM
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OK compression ratio is good. Stay with pump gas.

Eric, the second scenario you say I believe we are on the same page. The fire ring hangs over the edge of the compustion chamber. Larger bore hole gasket to fix that. Wow I found the potential problem and was right about the fix.
No eyebrows in the block. Are you suggesting it?
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