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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:22 AM
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I know the pictures at summit are not always the actual product, but if the size 4.540 Eric suggested is like it looks, I believe they would work. The fire rings are just about touching each other. Is there any problem going a little larger so I get it good the first (well the second) time? Eric, did you choose that size because of my measurement of it hanging in the air .030? Or just from experience?

Sorry, I must have missed the jesel length checker. I got two Jegs brand ones. One is too short to use for either rod and the longer one wasn't long enough for the exhaust, so I got a grade 5 1/4" 28 bolt 2" long and ground the head into the shape of a push rod end. It didn't bend the bolt so I guess that is OK.

Rod length checking, is the pattern on the valve stem the only thing to go by? Or should I be checking the rocker angle too? I wasn't paying attention to the rocker angle just the tip and the mark it left in the black sharpie marker. I didn't feel any binding. Come to think of it, I have a sort of dumb plastic rod length checker that slides onto the rocker stud. I'm going to compare my measurements to that just to see if they are close. If it's way off I'll look at things again. If it's close I'll assume I got it right.

I don't know about 3rd gear chirp, it used to do it sometimes with street tires with the old converter, but not with the 3K 10". Yes, I know, my convertor sucks. I would really like to try my old 1500 one again to compare times but I'm sort of out of my loop of friends when it comes to hot rodding and doing a swap like that is a B!T(H by myself.

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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2019, 12:39 PM
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Gasket bore size was just figured from my SBC experience with aftermarket heads and 2.08" or bigger valves the chamber is always bigger than the 4.030 to 4.125" bore gaskets and needs to be 4.166" or bigger, and often 4.190" or 4.200".
The 4.540" gasket is going to move the fire ring out .085" per side(radius) of the chamber, and that is the size all the Fel-Pro high perf gaskets were listed at....maybe there is another brand that offers something is the 4.430-4.480" range but I didn't dig real deep to see if Cometic or Flat-Out or SCE had anything.

Cylinder eyebrows are an airflow thing on the 4.250" bore block, IIRC they only end up a contact thing with the small bore 396.
Up to you if you want to put them in, would probably benefit your new heads, but I would not really want to do that work on an assembled short block due to grit, I'd only do it with the block empty. Otherwise you've got to really cover and seal everything up, and doing it in the car would be a real PITA.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2019, 12:41 PM
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I know the feeling on not having extra hands around to help. It sucks.

Having the relief cut into the block wouldn't hurt, my block had it already. But, having it for valve clearance may be required as Eric mentioned, especially if you have a 2.30" intake valve. However, I'm not an authority on this at all and make no claim to be. Just going off of what I've done so far.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2019, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 Tony View Post
I know the pictures at summit are not always the actual product, but if the size 4.540 Eric suggested is like it looks, I believe they would work. The fire rings are just about touching each other. Is there any problem going a little larger so I get it good the first (well the second) time? Eric, did you choose that size because of my measurement of it hanging in the air .030? Or just from experience?

Sorry, I must have missed the jesel length checker. I got two Jegs brand ones. One is too short to use for either rod and the longer one wasn't long enough for the exhaust, so I got a grade 5 1/4" 28 bolt 2" long and ground the head into the shape of a push rod end. It didn't bend the bolt so I guess that is OK.

Rod length checking, is the pattern on the valve stem the only thing to go by? Or should I be checking the rocker angle too? I wasn't paying attention to the rocker angle just the tip and the mark it left in the black sharpie marker. I didn't feel any binding. Come to think of it, I have a sort of dumb plastic rod length checker that slides onto the rocker stud. I'm going to compare my measurements to that just to see if they are close. If it's way off I'll look at things again. If it's close I'll assume I got it right.

I don't know about 3rd gear chirp, it used to do it sometimes with street tires with the old converter, but not with the 3K 10". Yes, I know, my convertor sucks. I would really like to try my old 1500 one again to compare times but I'm sort of out of my loop of friends when it comes to hot rodding and doing a swap like that is a B!T(H by myself.
Are you using the Straub/Foxwell video method to set the correct rocker geometry....or one of those wrong methods using just "center the rocker contact on the valvestem tip" methods that were never correct??
sounds like you are using "centered tip" method from what you posted

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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ericnova72 View Post
Are you using the Straub/Foxwell video method to set the correct rocker geometry....or one of those wrong methods using just "center the rocker contact on the valvestem tip" methods that were never correct??
sounds like you are using "centered tip" method from what you posted

Uh oh. Just in time, was about to order rods.
I'll try that but with my rockers it will be hard to determine the center line.
I'll have to check out their website, the phone number is in my area code.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:37 PM
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I attempted to find the center line on these *slider* rockers but was way off. So made use of the phone number and he said that it just isn't going to work with these rockers. The best I could try for is to get a pattern on the valve tip without getting too close to either side, but to shoot for the most narrow pattern.


Edit: They are in Piney Flats, which everyone around here knows where that is, except me. But now I know it's just a little southwest of Bristol Motor Speedway. He said he specializes in high end stuff so since he's close to Skip White's, I said "I guess you don't sell the same stuff as Skip White". He was nice and didn't say much, and I didn't tell him were I just bought heads from.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:28 PM
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If for some reason you decide to order pushrods from them and/or rocker arms(I'd highly recommend) and want to drive there, the name of the shop is (423 Speed Shop.) They are the exact opposite of someone else mentioned here as far as customer service, not to mention you could do open heart surgery in there.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
For a street driver, the tallest dual plane you can find is going to make the most power in a range that is useful. The longer runners have proven to be the answer for motors that are used up to about 6000 rpm's. Chrysler Corporation engineers experimented with some off-the-wall intake manifolds in the late '50's, early '60's, like the ram induction two-4 barrel unit. It was a cross-ram with the left bank carburetor sitting above the right bank valve cover and the right bank carburetor sitting over the left bank valve cover. It was the longer runners that made the best power.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/84864774207681420/

If I had to buy an intake manifold for you, it would be an Edelbrock 7164, Chevrolet Performance 12363420 or Professional Products 53001 (carb pad height 5.750")..
I bought the Edelbrock 7164, but according to Edelbrock, it's not much different than the one I had, the performer 2-0. It sits about 1/2" taller with the plenum about 1/2" further down than my old one.
Don't know if I'll end up with a 4 hole spacer or an open one.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:22 AM
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If for some reason you decide to order pushrods from them and/or rocker arms(I'd highly recommend) and want to drive there, the name of the shop is (423 Speed Shop.) They are the exact opposite of someone else mentioned here as far as customer service, not to mention you could do open heart surgery in there.

I ordered the pushrods already, half from summit and half from jegs, a matter of who had what in stock. We'll see who's gets here first. Hmm, Summit didn't have them in the Atlanta warehouse so they are coming via USPS from Texas.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 Tony View Post
Don't know if I'll end up with a 4 hole spacer or an open one.
Dual-plane manifold, use a 4-hole spacer. Single-plane manifold, use an open spacer, but don't be surprised if someone from Burnt Stump, Arkansas chimes in and tells us that he made more power with a dual-plane intake using an open spacer. Spacers are not an exact science.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Dual-plane manifold, use a 4-hole spacer. Single-plane manifold, use an open spacer, but don't be surprised if someone from Burnt Stump, Arkansas chimes in and tells us that he made more power with a dual-plane intake using an open spacer. Spacers are not an exact science.
Burnt Stump, that's my hometown!

You are correct about one thing Inspector, "Spacers are not an exact science.".

I was running an open spacer above the dual plane and it lowered my ET's compared to the 4 hole spacer. I think the off idle response wasn't as great, that was the compromise.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2019, 01:10 PM
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I know the feeling on not having extra hands around to help. It sucks.

Having the relief cut into the block wouldn't hurt, my block had it already. But, having it for valve clearance may be required as Eric mentioned, especially if you have a 2.30" intake valve. However, I'm not an authority on this at all and make no claim to be. Just going off of what I've done so far.

I don't recall if I noticed you are from Kingsport before now. Dang, just a little closer and we could help each other with those tranny swaps.
My intake valves are 2.25 and I know they clear because I've turned the engine over quite a few times with the measuring rod in place. I didn't feel enough resistance to bend a valve. When the head comes off again then I can check the clay on the piston and on the flat quench area, although I don't think my quench isn't very quenching. Maybe I should have looked for some thinner gaskets?

I had never even heard of the cut in the block like that before now. But when I did build the whole thing, I probably wouldn't have bothered since it had the stock 781's and thought I'd never move up. Now I don't want to risk it with the cast iron bits flying everywhere. I don't know if I could keep it clean enough.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:45 PM
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You're not too far from me, are you around Cosby I'd venture to guess.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 05:36 AM
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I'm just outside the Newport city limits by a mile or so, but don't hold that against me.
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Last edited by 55 Tony; 04-25-2019 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:06 AM
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Well crap, I live in Church Hill. I put Kingsport as it's a tad more familiar to folks for location. I head that way quite often in the spring, Douglas lake is crappie heaven, then back to Cherokee once the water warms up for the stripes.


Anyway, what length pushrods did you end up getting?
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