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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2019, 09:56 AM
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Torque Spec In Aluminum Heli Core

On my aluminum heads, what are the torque specs for going into heli core threads? Right now I need the rocker stud torque and the intake.

The holes for the exhaust are not heli cored. I have a guide somewhere for specs going into aluminum but not sure if anyone here has the answer. Hope to hell that doesn't become a problem. At least they do look deep.

Also, do I used anti seize on everything?

I was off in my calculations somehow for the push rod sizes and had to send the first set back and try again. I only got the exhaust so far, the intakes should be here tomorrow. They are 9" and 8.2". Haven't really checked them for fit yet.

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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2019, 01:50 PM
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Helicoiled threads in aluminum should be able to take full torque spec...but I don't tend to push them that far.
On the rocker studs 45-50 ft.lbs. and they'll need a sealer, as some or all go through into either waterjacket or the tops of the intake ports. Even if some are blinds holes I just use sealer on them all and don't switch to anti-seize on the blind holes.
Intake manifold, 22-30 ft.lbs with a sealer to prevent oil creep up the threads to the surface. A 7-8" long box end wrench as tight as you can go by hand comes pretty close to 25 ft'lbs in most cases.
Header flange-to head bolts, un-helicoiled, have GOT to have anti-seize paste or heat and galvanic action between dissimilar metals will weld them in over time. Giving a torque spec is tough as material grade, class of thread fit and the ability to even get a torque wrench onto all of them makes this a tough go.
I always go by feel here, but some guys just don't have as much experience with that and it doesn't transfer well over the internet

You'll want to check the intake and exhaust bolts at every use for the first 3-8 drives until they take a set...and probably keep checking the exhaust header bolts every 3rd gas fill-up or every other race weekend just to get a pattern and feel for the couple that will always seem to vibrate looser unless you've got some kind of locking bolt deal.

Don't forget the spark plugs also need a small amount of anti-seize in aluminum. Forget the brush can, get your finger messy(I know, it comes off hard and gets everywhere LOL) as this is a sparse amount, the stuff is electrically conductive so you don't want it near the center electrode or on the outer porcelain or slopped heavy on the first couple of threads.

Head bolts, lube the washer between the bolt head and the washer face, but not the head and washer bottom.
If you torque them all up, wait overnight and come back, crack each one loose one at a time and retorque back to spec you'll find each bolt will go 1/16-1/8 turn further as the gasket and bolt have both relaxed and settled in as they all spread out the load overnight.....this can help you get away from having to do a retorque on the head gasket after a heat cycle. Check the exposed head bolts over the exhaust ports after a heat cycle, this can guide you to making a decision on having to pull the valvecovers and retorque them all.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2019, 08:26 PM
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Oops, when I thought I was going on the light side with a small 3/8 ratchet on the rocker studs (temporary/ sizing push rods), I actually was a bit over 50 ft/lb. That's why I need to torque nearly everything I do. I was considering grinding down some of the studs that came into the intake runner but got lazy. It's not much so I didn't bother. I could still do it if it will make much of a difference.

Got real lucky reaching my fingers into the one runner and felt something sharp. Looking down the heli cored hole I saw it was the end of the heli core that gets snapped off. It was snapped but hanging in there. It fell down inside but blew some air into the open bolt hole and caught it coming out the port. That could have been nasty to say the least. I had the head torqued so I was happy I didn't have to pull it again. Checked the rest and certainly will give the other head the 3rd degree. Magnet won't work, I guess it's the better grade stainless.

Found some allen head bolts I've had forever, well at least 25 years, government surplus, just a little too long to go into the iron head exhaust without chasing the holes. Old bolts were 7/8" these are 1". Every thread counts when going into aluminum. I'll see if they work with these headers.

Put the exhaust rockers on one side with the Kool Nuts, pretty much just poly locks with lots of surface area against the ball. But I've never tightened one before. Makes zero lash really easy to find even with the lifters with no oil. Locking them was another story. Turning the set screw did not do much to make it tight. It came loose with a wrench way too easy for my taste, but maybe I'm overdoing it again. Anyway I went to zero lash+ 1/4 turn, snugged the set screw, then turned the Kool Nut and the set screw together about 3/16 further. So they are 0 lash + 7/16. Worked for me. Wouldn't work for solid lifters but for hydraulic OK.

Finally removed the other iron head without damaging anything, oh the coolant! Remove the lower rear head bolt and stick the shop vac at the hole till it starts slurping. Works for me. Then spent 1/2 hour looking for the drill with the wire brush to clean the carbon off the pistons. After giving up for the day I remembered I left it at my girlfriends house. Tomorrow I'll go there to mow her lawn and get some of the tools I left there from remodeling her kitchen.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2019, 07:45 AM
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Two Tempurature Gauges

It just dawned on me, I had a temp sending unit in each head, one for a newer aftermarket gauge, and one so the original gauge in the dash worked. Now I have no ports in the heads. I can put one into the intake manifold, but how about the other? A small setback but maybe I'm missing something?
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2019, 06:40 AM
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I finally started it yesterday, well tried to. Lots of backfires. How the heck did I have the distributor 180 out? It happens I guess.

Next up, runs like crap. I had done the ultimate screw up, used a different distributor. Never change two things at once. MSD. I thought about it but couldn't be sure, the magnetic pickup wires for some reason are backwards on it compared to the really old MSD. Yep, swap the wires and it runs better but still not right.

Timing with a light, I won't even try to explain it but for some reason *sometimes* (actually most of the time) a light shows false readings. Not just my light, two of mine and someone else's. And not just me, a real good ole' mechanic that still has one. Had to advance it till it kicks back when starting, then back a little. (light shows advanced about 50 and God knows what with the mechanical advance ... I think I'm in another Bermuda Triangle) OK, now it's idling good, or so it seems. I never can figure out if it has a miss or it's the cam sound. Out of gear light throttle it has a definite miss or three from 1000 to 3000rpm. Nothing too concerning since it had that before. In gear she feel pretty steady. I adjusted the idle screws really lean and it idles good that way.

Should I care that it misses when revving it out of gear? It's not that I drive it that way.

I really hate to break down and get rid of the Q-jet. I wish I could *rent-A-carb*. I wish they still made QuadraJets. Call me a sentimental fool.

When hot it was starting faster than a fuel injected engine. I'll see how it does now. I forgot to put it in the garage after it cooled down. It's still out there with the hood up and ignition unlocked. Looks dry outside, may take it for a ride.

I almost forgot I have to re shim the starter. Sounded great when it was apart and didn't run but now when it starts, or almost starts it's grinding.

I got WAY luckier than I thought with the raised exhaust ports and the headers. Only change needed was the smaller newer style GM starter. And I got to all the spark plugs with a socket, extension, and ratchet! But damn, I can not find my compression tester. I'd really like to check it on all 8.
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Old 05-04-2019, 11:35 AM
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I get it 180 off all the time, it's what happens when you don't pull #1 spark plug, bump the engine over to tdc with your finger over the hole and feel the pressure pushing your finger away.

I've had ones that missed while free revving but done fine under load, never figured it out either, I guarantee it's something simple though. just for poops and giggles, are you plug wires arcing? Start it in pitch black outside if you can and see if it looks like a lightning storm under the hood. If so, that ain't helping anything one bit.

Could the band on the balancer have slipped and 0 is not tdc on the timing marks? I've never seen it personally, just read about it, but have trouble believing it. Is #1 cylinder #1 on the cap?

If you have room and aren't financially embarrassed like me, just get an hei distributor, curve kit and have at it. The $65 one from Amazon is on my truck and works great, just don't get one with that &[email protected] umbrella coil cover, it has to come off to put the plug wires on. Just make sure it has a brass cap and rotor button.

I've never messed with any msd distributors, so I'm no help at all on them.
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2019, 02:04 PM
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The plug wires are good, I had changed them before and it acted the same way.
The timing abnormality is something you have to see to believe. My mechanic friend from before I moved south finds it hard to believe, and he's heard me talk about it for years. It's always been that way and after a while I rebuilt the motor along with a new balancer since the rubber in mine was dry rotting, but still right on the mark. On a BBC the 0 mark is in line with the keyway on the crank so it's easy to confirm it hasn't slipped. #1 is #1. One time I tried putting the timing light on each of the wires and none seemed right.
If the HEI's you speak of are the big cap, then they wouldn't fit without putting a hole in the firewall were it's already hammered in a lot. (no its not "massaged", it's fricken hammered) I try not to look at it.
The MSD distributor on it right now is so old that the instructions say "Autotronic Controls Corp.". I think they made the *multi spark discharge* ignitions back then, but it's before they started doing business under the "MSD" name.
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:31 PM
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Yup, big cap is hei. Well, would a plain small cap with coil on the firewall work? Same thing just coil is remote vs being on the cap. If you have one of those control boxes (6AL), I'm no help there either.

That is odd, the balancer wouldn't have the marks cut in the wrong place would it? I guess it can happen.
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:43 PM
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As far as the magnetic trigger wiring is concerned, the correct orientation is the connections that provide the most retarded spark.
So you time it as is to get a reference point with the timing light, pull cap and reverse the pick-up polarity by reversing the connections at the magnetic pick-up, and fire it back up. Whichever connection route gives the most retarded spark at that time, that is the correct wire connection.....then go ahead and reset the timing on the engine just like you normally would tune it.

You can get some weird behavior if the polarity is connected wrong on the mag pick-up.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2019, 03:07 PM
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I had three different balancers on it, all had the line dead on with the keyway. Verified quite a few times, especially the last week before the heads went on, that #1 is TDC when the mark is at zero. I swear every question has been asked and answered. I just thought about it and checked, I'm bad with names but see you are the guy in Kingsport. You will have to come see it sometime, or maybe I'll go up there. Maybe half way ... It would be great to have someone else see it and scratch their head.
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:09 PM
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MSD told me one way it will run like crap and the other way it runs good. That has held true for me.
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:19 PM
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Oh, I drove it today before the rain. Seemed to run pretty good, but I have to get it dialed in. Most likely it will like a little less timing, it did before at the track. On a particular on ramp to I 40 were I used to be able to hit 80mph and merge with traffic, I now was hitting about 90 before hitting the brakes. My one valve cover gasket was leaking real bad and oil burning on the headers so I had to cut the ride short. Still have a headache from the oil smell. So far I'm not overly impressed, but I do have some tuning to do. Don't get me wrong, it's faster, just not yet there.
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:27 PM
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I'll pm you about checking it out one day, maybe this week in the evening or something.

So, it's running faster than before and it's not even tuned right currently? That is a positive result.

Is your intake a quadrajet only or a dual pattern? If dual pattern, I've got a 750 street demon I can bring and you could try out if you think the quadrajet is toast.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:31 AM
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Dfish, that sounds great! Yes my intake will also take a square bore, that would really be nice to try. I think I have gaskets and a spacer too.



I don't know about these online carb cfm calculators, it evidently is a "try it and see" thing as far as I can tell. Back when my motor was still a smog motor with maybe 7:1 compression, Summit told me that all I needed was a 650. Well that was such a dog that I complained to customer service and told them I need to return it. And my cam at the time was really tame also. I'll have to try and figure out my volumetric efficiency again. If anyone has any idea feel free to share.
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Old 05-07-2019, 07:52 PM
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It's Official

It runs like a r*ped ape, and it's still got more to go. WOT is real rich, I have to lean that out. I already leaned out the APT (adjustable part throttle). Does the fact that it's more rich than before tell you anything? Like it has a better signal at the carb and that's why it's drawing more fuel?

Oh, at idle it seems to have found 3 or 4 more places to rattle, and going slow at light to medium throttle the steering wheel vibrates. Feels like I put solid mounts in it (although I don't really know what solid mounts would feel like.)
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