Steering problem - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2015, 01:47 PM
The Belgian's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Age: 32
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Steering problem

Hi guys!

I recently purchased a 1959 chevy 3100.

it would run and drive great except for one thing, the steering.
i added a few pics to explain the problem. any normal car would steer at the angles explained by the red lines. wich is pretty logic because the inner wheel makes a smaller circle than the outer wheel.
My car has it just the other way. the outer wheel makes a smaller circle than the inner wheel. as shown in the other picture with the green lines.
wich makes the outer wheel skip and bounce when taking a turn. and because they're brand new white walls i don't want to destroy the tires, so i haven't been driving since. not that long though.

edit: i've purchased the car like this.

I've inspected the steering and everything looks okay, i've got no clue what to do next. i've been thinking that the rods are not in the right place or something. i've found a shop manual that tells me it's possible to mount it the wrong way, but i can't see something fitted wrong because that looks impossible.

maybe someone had this issue before, hope you can help me out.

thanks,

The Belgian
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	steering-turning.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	29.6 KB
ID:	226641   Click image for larger version

Name:	steering-turning 2 copy.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	29.1 KB
ID:	226649  

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2015, 02:58 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 75
Posts: 9,581
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 300
Thanked 720 Times in 614 Posts
A bent steering arm might be a culprit.. First thing to check is the wheelbase the same on both sides. then check to see that the axles are square to the centerline of the truck. I do that by scribing a center line on my garage floor and making two lines one at the rear end and one at the front end and dropping a plumb bob from the axles down so I can see whats going on. If all that checks then I go to alignment. Camber on those is fixed so then I go to the toe in and check that. Should be about an 1/8 inch. I also check castor to see if anything is off there. Looks to me like you may have a bent steering arm or the spindles were replaced with some from another truck at some time.

Just my guess.

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2015, 03:28 PM
The Belgian's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Age: 32
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
well it's a 2wd and the steering arms are straight. nothing seems wrong by taking a look at the steering mechanism. going straight forward it drives great, camber is good (by my experience and logical thinking) strange thing is that it's in both ways. going to the right and going to the left, the wheels are doing the opposite of what's right, as explained in the pictures. it looks like the entire front axle was demounted and fitted on again completely backwards. so if i could take it out, spin it 180 degrees and put it back in, it would be working normal. but then the steering wheel connection would be at the wrong side.

also the rear axle has nothing to do with it, because it's clearly visible by just turning the steering wheel and without driving.

rear seems fine and i cant see significant damage ever occured on the frame. frame looks old but in decent condition. so the crab walk doesn't occur on this car.


i'll try to take some pictures later this week.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ohio
Age: 72
Posts: 1,000
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 141 Times in 124 Posts
Does this by chance have a rack and pinion conversion on a front end that originally had a steering box? I have seen this in the past when a rack is mounted too close to the centerline of the axle, and the tie rods actually go forward to the steering arms on the spindle. Any idea what type of front end you have?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 07:03 AM
delawarebill's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: delaware
Posts: 2,373
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 98
Thanked 229 Times in 221 Posts
orig steering box ????

if so, ck the steering arms located on the spindles. is one longer then the other ???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 09:05 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,349
Thanked 6,938 Times in 4,408 Posts
Are the steering arms on the spindles facing forward or backward? If it was swapped around for some reason, the ackerman angle (which is what you are talking about ) would wrong as you have described. There is nothing else that can cause this but the spindles being on the wrong side with the steering arms facing forward, period, there is nothing else that can do this.

If one side were being bad or something like that, it would make this happen turning one way and then turning it the opposite way would simply make the inside wheel turn too much but to make it turn too little turning it both ways could only be caused by the spindles being on the wrong sides with the steering arm off the spindle facing forward.

They probably swapped the axle around so the tie rod went in front to clear the oil pan on the motor they swapped in. Or as mentioned, does it have rack and pinion? And they swapped it around to so the rack was out front as to not get in the way of the oil pan.

Can you shoot some photos?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to MARTINSR For This Useful Post:
LATECH (09-07-2015)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 09:25 AM
1971BB427's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Latest changes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,901
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 132
Thanked 888 Times in 641 Posts
Before all the what is wrong answers, it might help knowing if this still has the stock straight axle, or if it's had a front suspension swap done? And if it's been changed, then what did they swap into the truck?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 10:34 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,349
Thanked 6,938 Times in 4,408 Posts
Exactly, it could be because it's mounted on a '62 VW Bug pan with the engine in front and the steering in the back! We ARE just guessing for goodness sakes!

Post some photos so we know what the heck you have.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 01:36 PM
The Belgian's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Age: 32
Posts: 18
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
Before all the what is wrong answers, it might help knowing if this still has the stock straight axle, or if it's had a front suspension swap done? And if it's been changed, then what did they swap into the truck?
and quote to all the others.


that's exactly what's going trough my mind the last day. i don't have any experience on old chevy's so i can't tell if it's the stock steering setup. my good friend google gave me alot of pictures but none of them looked familiar. i've only found a 55 shop manual so i can't say if it's the same or not.

my guess is the best thing to do is to take a few pictures, wich i will do one of the days, because the car is at a friend's so i need to be sure he's home or i can get in

i might have been a litlle cheap on details but it's not a power steering, and i've noticed that the steering rod that connects the steering wheel to the steering axle (or what you call it in english) has been modified. it looks like it's made out of two parts that were welded togheter. you'll see it in the pictures coming soon.

i'll keep you updated!


and a big thanks in advance!


The Belgian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 01:52 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,349
Thanked 6,938 Times in 4,408 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Belgian View Post
and quote to all the others.


that's exactly what's going trough my mind the last day. i don't have any experience on old chevy's so i can't tell if it's the stock steering setup. my good friend google gave me alot of pictures but none of them looked familiar. i've only found a 55 shop manual so i can't say if it's the same or not.

my guess is the best thing to do is to take a few pictures, wich i will do one of the days, because the car is at a friend's so i need to be sure he's home or i can get in

i might have been a litlle cheap on details but it's not a power steering, and i've noticed that the steering rod that connects the steering wheel to the steering axle (or what you call it in english) has been modified. it looks like it's made out of two parts that were welded togheter. you'll see it in the pictures coming soon.

i'll keep you updated!


and a big thanks in advance!


The Belgian
It is really sounding like the axle is swapped around with the steering arms out front. All the evidence is leading that way.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 02:09 PM
boothboy's Avatar
More bucks, go faster!
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grass Valley, CA.
Posts: 1,052
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2,187
Thanked 1,782 Times in 1,271 Posts
Make sure that the Idler Arm is not reversed. This can happen if the vehicle's front tire struck a obstacle while backing up. This can set the front end up like you have shown. Ask how I know. I have a 1970 Chevy one ton Longhorn

BB
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2015, 03:45 PM
1Cool30's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 27
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
It sounds to me like the Akerman angle is off due to either a bent steering arm or someone has replaced the steering with something with the tie rods in the front.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2015, 09:32 AM
1971BB427's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Latest changes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,901
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 132
Thanked 888 Times in 641 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Cool30 View Post
It sounds to me like the Akerman angle is off due to either a bent steering arm or someone has replaced the steering with something with the tie rods in the front.
There are chassis swaps used to clip these old Chevy trucks that use the tie rods up front successfully. The 2nd Gen Camaro subframes are a popular swap that works well, and all use front steering rods.
Something tells me this isn't stock front I beam axle, and/or it has been modified by either dropping the stock axle in the dirt, or changing the whole front suspension. Clipped front frame swaps can work well, but I've seen people attempt to use the control arms, and pieces by welding brackets to the stock frames, and come up with some nightmare steering issues.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2015, 09:37 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,349
Thanked 6,938 Times in 4,408 Posts
Yes, there are plenty of front suspensions with the steering arms out front, but it's designed into the system! The tie rod ends are way out further to keep the angle correct.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2015, 09:42 AM
1971BB427's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Latest changes
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,901
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 132
Thanked 888 Times in 641 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Yes, there are plenty of front suspensions with the steering arms out front, but it's designed into the system! The tie rod ends are way out further to keep the angle correct.

Brian
The key is using a complete engineered system, as it was originally engineered! Not that the system can't be installed in another type of vehicle, but it needs to retain all the proper geometry, as designed.
I'm guessing that's what is wrong with this truck, but I'll wait to suggest cures until we see pictures, and figure out what he's got going.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New spindles now steering problem 1baddeuce Suspension - Brakes - Steering 4 07-23-2015 09:25 AM
steering problem blue rose Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 05-30-2014 09:13 AM
Steering problem genewa1 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 2 02-19-2007 05:00 PM
Serious steering problem! 68NovaSS Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 08-25-2006 11:41 AM
OK, now what..steering problem Bluepen Suspension - Brakes - Steering 9 01-12-2005 07:51 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.