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Old 11-29-2018, 03:24 PM
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Steps from bare block to short block:

Please list all steps necessary to go from bare block to short block in general, but in as much detail as time practical for you.




a) Would there be any differences in procedure between brand new block vs. seasoned/used block? The block may be aluminum, if that makes any difference.



b) i want an all-forged bottom end----crank, rods, pistons if that makes any difference.

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Old 11-29-2018, 03:42 PM
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Welcome....Pretty big task to ask someone to post all that.......I think your best bet is to read some books on the subject, maybe take a course in a tech school..... Maybe our members can recommend some good books or courses for that matter. .
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:06 PM
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i'm not real clear, but here's my limited understanding from what i have read/seen/heard:


1) Wash the block/remove all oils etc.


2) The cylinders need to be measured and "honed" somehow?


3) The "bearing seats" in the block or whatever they're called for the crank need to be aligned. Or not, if you don't care that much about precision.


4) The crank itself should be checked for straightness---- or not if you don't care much about precision?


5) The bearings and crank need to be put in the block and checked if it will spin freely and that the bearings have the proper clearance.


6) After the cylinders were measured for the diameter (or after machined to the desired diameter), the cylinders are then "honed" (somehow) and then the pistons and rods are assembled and put into the block.


7) rod bearings and rod end caps are assembled on to the crank journals.


8) oil pump (this is a pain if you've never done one and don't have the tool)
9) oil pan.


Done?
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:23 PM
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It would really help to know what type and brand of engine we are talking about here....different makes and models have different items that need more detail than others.

It would also help to know if this is just a daily driver rebuild, or a full race piece, as some steps won't be needed on a daily driver but would be considered almost mandatory on a race engine.
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:29 PM
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SBC, bowtie alumium




race only.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.b. cooper View Post
i'm not real clear, but here's my limited understanding from what i have read/seen/heard:


1) Wash the block/remove all oils etc.


2) The cylinders need to be measured and "honed" somehow?


3) The "bearing seats" in the block or whatever they're called for the crank need to be aligned. Or not, if you don't care that much about precision.


4) The crank itself should be checked for straightness---- or not if you don't care much about precision?


5) The bearings and crank need to be put in the block and checked if it will spin freely and that the bearings have the proper clearance.


6) After the cylinders were measured for the diameter (or after machined to the desired diameter), the cylinders are then "honed" (somehow) and then the pistons and rods are assembled and put into the block.


7) rod bearings and rod end caps are assembled on to the crank journals.


8) oil pump (this is a pain if you've never done one and don't have the tool)
9) oil pan.


Done?
Would add 5) check crank spins freely after each crank cap is torqued in turn and the same with each big end cap.
Make sure you oil all part before assembling.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:32 PM
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Gen 1 SBC aluminum block, or are you talking LS series??

Fresh new block, straight from the GM crate, or a used block someone has already run??

Circle track, Road Race, Drag Race, boat??
Drag race with some street time, or just track only??

Dry sump block, or wet sump block??

What's your skill level here?? bicycle mechanic,..... some small engine repair, small engine rebuild, ..do-it-yourselfer on automotive like oil change, spark plugs, tune-up....deeper stuff like brakes, u-joints, wheel bearings???
Any automotive engine remove and replace parts, cam swaps, valvespring swaps, head swaps, etc.

No full rebuilds on auto engines, I take it from the initial posts??
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:34 PM
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I think it's great that you want to get into this work on your project.


BUT


The list you provided has a lot of holes in it and that's not just cylinders either. An aluminum block project to be successful for racing work is going to require that EVERYTHING be checked to make sure that surfaces are correct, that cylinders are bored and honed to the piston/ring choice, that align boring is done, camshaft alignment and lifter bores have to be straight. On the lifter bores depending on camshaft choice you may want to move up to a larger bore lifter too. You also need to check deck height and figure out where you want the piston in the hole, down some or dead level with the head surface? What compression ratio are you looking for and of course you have to have some idea of the heads/intake you want to put on this short block. Head gasket choice will play a role here too. Then there's the type of timing chain setup, dual roller chain or Jesel type belt drive? Driving the distributor off the front? That has to be addressed too. And timing should be handled by a crank trigger and corresponding ignition box. Then let's get into the oil pump setup, stock type cast iron or aftermarket billet? Oil pickup dependent on the type of pump and the pan itself which in turn is dependent on the type of chassis the engine is going into.


So - my real question here - do you actually own this aluminum block or is this just a bench racing session? For what sounds like a first build (and we have no idea of the tool set you own) you are definitely stepping off the limb here. It can be done for sure, but as suggested do a lot of reading - there must be 50 different books about building and hopping up Small Block Chevys - check Barnes and Noble or Amazon online. Next step is ask friends about a good engine/machine shop and get real friendly with the owner - bring money - lots of it.
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Old 11-30-2018, 06:06 AM
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Just a newbie putting in my $0.000002 worth. Also check at abebooks.com
They are a central point for used book dealers and on a search there are tons of books on rebuilding a sbc for performance. Sometimes it takes a week or two to get the book from the dealer but in most choices the shipping is free. It will also list where the dealers are located and the name of the book store so if one is close to you, you could just go and get it from the store.

Just an idea,
Charles
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Old 11-30-2018, 06:46 AM
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I would find a iron 80's sbc and just tear it apart completely (excpet the heads) and clean everything in a parts washer.

Then put everything back together just replacing the gaskets. Torquing to tolerances and plastic gauge.

Your going to learn tons by doing this.

Ok now do it again this time tearing the heads down completely and install a new cam.

Should have a good grasp of everything snd can rebuild 10 over that iron block to sell and recoup your $600 learning experience or just scrap it.

Then you can move to the expensive stuff.


A non interference 4 cylinder makes s great learning tool also. Able to be rebuilt in car in some cases with safeguards that a non electronic engine does not have.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:36 AM
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I have a few engines around my shop and I just pick a good candidate when I want to build one up. I have heard them all run, have come from my old street cars and stock cars, I expect no big surprises. They are also complete, all pulleys and brackets, flex-plate, flywheel, always try to keep a starter with an engine.


When the time comes, I crane it up on an engine stand and start taking it apart. Lifters and cam are usually not used again, but worth a close look for abnormal wear patterns. Same with timing chain and gears. If the rod and main caps are not marked, I'll mark them. I often replace the rods and pistons but look them over anyway. I mark everything as it comes apart, just so if I see something odd, I know where it came from.


I'll pop the crank out and look at the main saddles and the crank itself. Then the crank goes back into the block, a safe place for it. If the engine gets that far, I take it to my builder and he does the cleaning and inspection thing. By then I have an idea what I'm doing with it and will include the heads in the clean and check if I'm using them again.


From there we discuss pistons and rods, what I'd like from the heads, cam choices. Sometimes I buy the parts, some he buys or has on the shelf. After doing a few, you have an idea of what to do.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:50 PM
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If you want to learn from scratch, then I'd not recommend a big dollar, top shelf part, high performance block and build. Rebuilding a used engine and learning how to tune and do little things that are expected for everyone to know (common sense) is not going to occur on a first time build. Basically, live and learn on something not too valuable.

If you need a high performance motor and don't have the time to live and learn, then your sitaution begs for a crate motor. You won't be able to piece together a motor in the 350-450HP range for what you can buy a crate for with a warranty.

If you have the skill set and knowledge to handle the tools, then give a better description of what your intended use is for the motor - be precise in describing driving style, vehicle, etc.
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
If you want to learn from scratch, then I'd not recommend a big dollar, top shelf part, high performance block and build. Rebuilding a used engine and learning how to tune and do little things that are expected for everyone to know (common sense) is not going to occur on a first time build. Basically, live and learn on something not too valuable.

If you need a high performance motor and don't have the time to live and learn, then your sitaution begs for a crate motor. You won't be able to piece together a motor in the 350-450HP range for what you can buy a crate for with a warranty.

If you have the skill set and knowledge to handle the tools, then give a better description of what your intended use is for the motor - be precise in describing driving style, vehicle, etc.



I agree with your logic but disagree with the crate motor stuff. They're good engines no doubt but I really believe that if you are into high performance then you need to have a engine shop partner. And I have two reasons - one is the support that you will receive, you have a problem they want to help you fix it. Second, nothing beats being able to customize that engine exactly the way you want it, plus keeping a shop in business is just good for all of us.
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:33 PM
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OK let me clarify the first post I did on my phone this afternoon.

Get a v8 that runs, it can have a bad head gasket, burn oil, but having one that runs is going to let you have a baseline to get back to once you put it back together.

Now a sbc or other v8 would be nice but basically anything that runs that you can get for free or next to free will work.

From here on out I am just going to assume you found a mid 80's 305.

Thing has a mechanical pump, carburetor, hei, and a starter that does not require the bell housing to be attached.

Set the engine on a stand or support the engine by using the motor mount points. DO NOT start the engine on a engine stand. Your better off using 2 tires setting the oil pan sump in the center of a tire then using a engine stand.

Run a 4 or larger (2, 0, 00,000 etc) battery cable to the starter lug then run a 10 gauge wire off that up to the COIL.

Run a 4 gauge negative wire to a clean spot on the block.

Run a second separate 10 gauge wire to the S terminal on the starter. If you touch the other end of this wire to the battery the engine will crank and when given fuel will run. Your done with the electrical for now.

For fuel you want to simply get a gas can and pour some into a clean soda bottle with hose attached going to the fuel pump. We are just getting a baseline so a 20 oz bottle will be enough

Check that you have oil and make sure nothing is going to hit when the engine is rotating.

We have fuel and spark lets start this puppy. Crank the engine 5 or 6 times then wait 30 or so seconds. Lets not heat up the wires or starter. Your getting fuel up to the carb and filling the float. Crank the engine another 5 or 6 times and the engine should have the float full.

Hit the throttle on the carburatior once fully this will set the cam on the side of the choke if equipped. Crank the engine 2 or 3 times while bumping the throttle a few times and the thing should fire up.

Bump the throttle a few times letting the engine settle and idle for a minute

Now your not testing anything we just need to know that it will fire and run at this point so after a minute shut it down.

Now that we know you have a engine that will run lets check the compression to get a baseline.

He is doing it on a 4 cylinder but you can do it on anything using the same methouds and just operating the starter. Just disconnect the coil from the distributior.


Write down your numbers and keep those numbers somewhere safe.

So we have our numbers and lets say you have 2 cylinders low. No big deal we don't care about this engine just want these numbers to be close to the same when we put it back together.




Next thing to do is remove your electrical we don't need it for a while and using a piston stop set the number one cylinder to top dead cylinder. Now you could be 180 off so remove the distributor cap and on MOST sbc the rotor should be pointing towards number 1 when number 1 is correct. Your timing should be set at 0 here also.

Now your going to get out your chisel and hammer and make a scribe on the intake to distributior shaft showing the relation. This will make installing it easier later.

Next your going to make a mark on the balance to the bottom of the block. If you have a pointer that is showing 0 when the piston stop is used you don't need this mark.





OK now we are ready to start tearing this thing down. Now the first time you do this all we are leaving the cam and heads alone and pulling everything else then putting it back together.

Next time we are doing the cam and the heads.

Third time you can rebuild the engine correctly

A air impact will make tear down easier on exterior bolts and items.




Remove the alternator, water pump, ac pump, ps pump, and any other accessories setting them aside. Something I like to do is screw bolts back into there holes into say the block or accessory as I pull them.

Double check your mark on the distributor if any wires are attached remove them) then remove the hold down bolt and twist while lifting which will cause the thing to lift up. Now set that aside somewhere where it wont roll off the top of the workbench kind of deal and then tighten the hold down bolt and tab back down to your intake.

We are going to pull the carb and intake as a unit. Remove the bolts holding down the intake then hit the front of the intake with a piece of wood and a 3 lb hammer using the wood as a buffer. You can also use a rubber hammer. Your just breaking the gasket here and one or two hits should be enough to free it allowing you to lift the intake and carb up setting that aside.




At this point you can attach your chain to the rear of the passenger head and front of the drivers head. Use grade 8 bolts and thread those bolts at least a inch in. Then attach secondary bolts at another hole on the head near the ones you used. This secondary bolt will catch the engine in case it manages to snap your primary bolt.

Lift the engine up using a hoist and install it on your engine stand after you remove the flywheel and starter. Engine stands vary make sure the engine is installed correctly before lowering the hoist. Once the thing is on the stand and secure lock the wheels and remove the chain.



Pull your valve covers and set those aside.

Now your going to remove the heads next but it is important to install everything as it comes out so get some cardboard.

Draw the pattern of your head bolts on the cardboard then using a screwdriver push those bolt locations through the cardboard.

Also draw the pattern of your pushrods then push holes through that cardboard.

Remove the rocker bolts aand put the pushrod into the cardboard then reinstall the rocker reinstalling the bolt and turning it a few timesso the rocker is not going to go anywhere then do the thing to the rest removing the push rods till they are all out.

Then remove the head bolts putting those into the cardboard in the proper spot. Using your piece of wood as a buffer tap the side of your head with a hammer enough to break the head gasket seal and lift the head off then do the other side.

Remove your lifters using a magnet pickup tool setting them in order next to your push rods.

Ok we are going to drain the oil at this point so throw a container under there and drain the oil into it before putting that oil into jugs to take to your recycling facility.






Done with the top end onto the bottom.

Loosen the bolt on your engine stand and rotate the engine so the oil pan is pointing up.

Remove your oil pan

Remove your balancer and timing cover

Mark the relation of the cam sprocket to the block. We are leaving the cam in the engine and it may get bumped. This mark will avoid you degree the cam if that happens.

Also mark the relation of the lower sprocket to the crank so you know what hole to put it on some times there are 2 or more holes.

Remove the chain and sprocket using a puller.

Remove your oil pump with screen






Wipe down the caps so they are nice and clean.

Now you need to orient your caps right so wipe down the caps so they are clean even hit them with a bit of break cleaner to get clean metal.

On the side of the cap facing the FRONT of the engine put a white mark using white out or other painting marker that wont wipe off on the front of the cap. So number 1 has one dot on the front of the cap, 2 2 dots and so on. This will make it impossible to install a cap backwards or in the wrong location.

Now remove your caps and bearing shell marking the front of the bearing shell also setting them on the floor in a neat row from front to back with the bolts inside them or next to the holes so the bolts and caps stay together.
You need to keep these in order because your reusing them and need to put them back exactly as they came out.

Ok now install hose around the rod bolts covering the threads to protect that surface and get ready to hit the inside of the piston against the bottom part of the piston.

But first grab a coat hanger and 2 bolts. Then install the two bolts looping the coat hanger around them so that the hanger is a inch or so below the piston your going to remove. This will catch the piston once it is free of the cylinder.

Use a wooden dowel and strike the piston moving it up the cylinder until you get near the top. There may be a ridge and dont worry about it just hit the thing and if you break a ring then it happens.




That's the tear down in a nutshell. Sure I missed something. But that's the basic basics of tearing one down.

If you catch a ring on the ridge breaking a ring just measure it and install a new ring set that is the same size or a couple mill bigger into the cylinders. Torque everything to spec as it goes back together, use plenty of assembly lube and plastic gauge as needed.

Align all your marks and install everything back in order that it was removed with the engine at TDC. Crank the engine over by hand(it may have some drag due to slightly larger rings). After 6 or so rotations by hand make sure nothing is going to hit anything else hook up your electrical and fuel and test the thing out.

Last edited by cerial; 11-30-2018 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:33 PM
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---Gen 1 block. It's actually/i'm proposing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-10134371


---Prefer brand new, fresh block. But would not dismiss a used block.


---Dragging only. Brackets. If there is any street use, it would only be for testing.


---Wet sump, but i would not rule out the dry sump version #10134351 if 371 can't be found.


---Skill level is up to cam changes, head removal/re-install, engine and trans swaps, but no engine rebuilds.
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