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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2018, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. DeRousse View Post
The engine will be going into a 83 c10. It has 700r4 transmission with a shift kit. The build is going to be for drag racing and maybe some trips to the drift pit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. DeRousse View Post
For drag racing I would like to run around high 12 low 13s. Not planning on a 10sec truck. The truck weighs 4000lbs currently. I will be gutting bed and some other misc items to cut it to 3500 eventually.
Paradox alert - a 12-13 sec truck is not going to drift anywhere.

You need more power x 2 at a minimum. Having a plan to later add a supercharger or turbo is GREAT one. And most all of us will understand not having the funds to build a 700-900 HP motor right out of the gate.

As mentioned, build the motor NA to handle the boost down the road. That means forged slugs, decent aftermarket rods, forged crank, aluminum heads, and keep the compression in the 9:1 area. You can get by with more compression NA, but the forced induction setup will be much easier tune (larger tuning window) at 8.5-9:1. You should plan on a cam change when the forced induction comes along.

And no need to go any smaller than a 383.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2018, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
Paradox alert - a 12-13 sec truck is not going to drift anywhere.

As mentioned, build the motor NA to handle the boost down the road. ...but the forced induction setup will be much easier tune (larger tuning window) at 8.5-9:1.
A 13 second vehicle can drift... but drifting is very wasteful of tires and money...

Strong drag engine and boost engine will need different pistons...
.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:09 PM
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My drifting customers that compete...are all 600+hp LS transplant guys. But; you can have fun with less, you just need way more gearing to get the wheel speed up. Wasteful of tires and money? One could argue that of any competitive racing endeavor. We shouldn't cast dispersion upon what others do in the spirit of hotrodding, racing and the pursuit of fun. If it ain't hurting you, don't hinder them.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2018, 04:18 PM
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Putting Drifting into the picture means you will also need to be looking at a very good oil pan and windage tray set-up, nothing cheap will be good enough.

Quickly changing G forces wreaks havoc with oil control, anyone serious on drifting is using some type of remote belt-driven oil pump. (With the exception of the LS engine guys).

This is sounding more and more like 5.3 LS engine/Turbo swap candidate rather than the old SBC deal. The SBC is going to cost you more in the end.
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. DeRousse View Post
On top of that we are going to run a performer rpm intake
At 8:50 and 11:00 in this video they discuss the amount of power lost using a dual plane performer RPM-type intake manifold on an engine with a 236/242 cam:


How much of your parts list do you already have? are you on a tight budget?

Don't get us wrong, your original plan engine will run strong, and could be a little delicate if using mostly stock parts, but some of it can be tweaked better as we mentioned for about the same money while putting it together... or as your budget allows later... for items that can't be sold now to get funds for more appropriate parts...

I remember back in the day taking off in my stock GTO and shifting through all the gears and moving off in 4th gear with both rear tires burning... but... WOW !!! ... As vehicle speed got up around 50 MPH, unexpected, powerful, squirrelly, violent, dangerous forces came into play and I had to let off to get my body and the car back under control !!!

Some 1.6 rocker arms:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6801

Dual quad tunnel ram:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cmb-03-0184/overview
.
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:34 PM
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Iíve been doing some research. And it seems I could have decent build with a XE274 cam and 64cc chamber 180cc heads. Along with a 2500 stall and 4.10 gears.
Just wondering what you guys think about this. Just to get me going for now. Then once I go forced induction I can swap to bigger heads to lower my compression.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2018, 12:37 AM
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cam

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. DeRousse View Post
Iíve been doing some research. And it seems I could have decent build with a XE274 cam and 64cc chamber 180cc heads. Along with a 2500 stall and 4.10 gears.
Just wondering what you guys think about this. Just to get me going for now. Then once I go forced induction I can swap to bigger heads to lower my compression.
sounds like you still want to build an engine around some plane jane nothing special flat tappet hydraulic camshaft? The fellas that have posted have gone a long ways past your aspirations,,,

Build your little 350 hp 355 cube engine and put it in a Nissan 240 and drift a little or drag race a little.
When you want to step up to anything semi serious leave the flat tappet hydraulic cams for the beginners
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. DeRousse View Post
Iíve been doing some research. And it seems I could have decent build with a XE274 cam and 64cc chamber 180cc heads. Along with a 2500 stall and 4.10 gears.
Just wondering what you guys think about this. Just to get me going for now. Then once I go forced induction I can swap to bigger heads to lower my compression.
Here's the problem with this plan IMO. FT hydro cam implies VERY light valve spring pressures - it's the only way one will live without grinding up lobes. Forced induction to any degree beyond 5-7 psi implies that the spring pressures need to be increased inorder to maintain valve control both over the nose and on the seat due to there is additional pressure (boost) trying to keep the valve open. All of this leads to a cam and spring swap will be needed when the forced induction comes along.

You are at the point now where you could build the motor to handle boost that will be added later. Plan the build and build the plan. It is truly a mistake trying to build a motor around a cam - it will lead to unhappiness and/or wasted money.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
sounds like you still want to build an engine around some plane jane nothing special flat tappet hydraulic camshaft? The fellas that have posted have gone a long ways past your aspirations,,,

Build your little 350 hp 355 cube engine and put it in a Nissan 240 and drift a little or drag race a little.
When you want to step up to anything semi serious leave the flat tappet hydraulic cams for the beginners
No need to get insulting of a beginner with limited funds... and flat tappet cams have worked fine for 100 years... Most of us still run them...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2018, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. DeRousse View Post
I’ve been doing some research. And it seems I could have decent build with a XE274 cam and 64cc chamber 180cc heads. Along with a 2500 stall and 4.10 gears.
Just wondering what you guys think about this. Just to get me going for now. Then once I go forced induction I can swap to bigger heads to lower my compression.
1st step: find out what the engine you have actually is... HP? Quality of parts that were used? Does it have a 4 bbl. carb.? If not, can you score a 4 bbl. carb./intake off one of your relatives other engines? They prolly have bigger carb.s stock than the little 650 CFM carb. size you first mentioned! I assume you already have the truck? How old are you? (it's OK if you're under 16) Where are you located? May be other helpful members nearby... 150,000+ members here...

"Just to get you going" may require only some different pistons and a mild performance cam to get up into the 350 - 375 HP club with an otherwise stock 350... or maybe it's already that powerful... Have you ever worked on an automobile/truck engine before? Go Kart, 3 wheeler, 4 wheeler, or minibike engine before?
.

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Old 02-04-2018, 12:39 PM
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I currently do have the truck already. And Iím 19.It has a Edelbrock 650 carb on it. Along with performer rpm intake.
And I have worked with engines. We built the 305 thatís in it now and put it in. And Iíve done engine work on my civic also. But the 305 has its limits which is why we are going with a 350. Iím currently about 1000 miles away from the engine at some training so Iím not sure what the stock build consists of.
I was hoping to swap over the headers, intake(performer rpm), and Edelbrock carb.
Iím looking for something powerful enough to get me going until I can afford the supercharger. So Iím open to recommendations.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. DeRousse View Post
have the truck ... has a Edelbrock 650 carb ... Performer RPM intake ... have worked with engines. We built the 305 ... going with a 350 ... currently about 1000 miles away, not sure what the stock build consists of ... hoping to swap over the headers, intake, and carb. ...
I’m looking for something powerful enough to get me going until I can afford the supercharger. So I’m open to recommendations.
Did you put a higher performance cam into the 305? Smaller engines can be surprisingly powerful when built right... Have you ever driven a stock 2005 Ford Mustang GT with the little base 4.6L/280" engine with a 4 speed manual and its good factory tranny and rear gearing? Feels like a big block engine...

Anyway, the carb. and intake will be adequate to about 400 - 450 HP on a 350... but the Comp 292 you mentioned is a biggish, miserable to daily drive cam that likes single plane intakes, big heads, higher stall, lots of RPMs, and a bigger carb. to breathe right...
.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
No need to get insulting of a beginner with limited funds... and flat tappet cams have worked fine for 100 years... Most of us still run them...
Vinnie isn't being insulting, but rather making sure the young man understands the error of his way that he described how the build is going. He's trying to stop him from 'putting good money on top of bad'. At least that's what I see he's trying to do.

OP - I have to admit that you're in a great spot get some forced induction education. If your 305 is a sound motor, then there is no better time than the present to become addicted to boost. About all you need is a boost ready carb. I'm not familiar with anyone boosting through an Eddie, but all that is needed is a 2 barrel 390 Holley with some basic mods, a basic mod to the distributor and to boost reference the fuel pump. After that a chinesium wastegate, BOV and small turbo. All of this can be had for well under $1000 and perhaps $600 if you can handle the carb mods yourself.

Learn how to tune your fuel (carb) and spark on the motor that you aren't in love with. Then save to build 600-800 hp drift motor.

Sometimes it's just as much fun to 'run what you brung'
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2018, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
Vinnie isn't being insulting, but rather making sure the young man understands the error of his way that he described how the build is going. He's trying to stop him from 'putting good money on top of bad'. At least that's what I see he's trying to do.

OP - I have to admit that you're in a great spot get some forced induction education. If your 305 is a sound motor, then there is no better time than the present to become addicted to boost. About all you need is a boost ready carb. I'm not familiar with anyone boosting through an Eddie, but all that is needed is a 2 barrel 390 Holley with some basic mods, a basic mod to the distributor and to boost reference the fuel pump. After that a chinesium wastegate, BOV and small turbo. All of this can be had for well under $1000 and perhaps $600 if you can handle the carb mods yourself.

Learn how to tune your fuel (carb) and spark on the motor that you aren't in love with. Then save to build 600-800 hp drift motor.

Sometimes it's just as much fun to 'run what you brung'
This sounds increasingly like the smart move...turbo the 305 along this plan, Amazon or Ebay budget chinesium turbo kit would be easy due to your huge amount of underhood space...once you've learned and gotten familiar with Turbo workings you can do a better base engine and refine a cleaner fitting turbo package and have the truck you want that will drift and still not be an embarrassment at the dragstrip.

EngineMasters on YouTube and Hot Rod magazine have both done features on that low cost Amazon/Ebay turbo kit and provide details on some of the pitfalls and how they sorted it out.

blow up the 305 and your not out anything of great value and nobody will care, just slip another SBC under the turbo plumbing and carry on.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:44 PM
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I have considered boosting the 305. The only thing is we have a 10.5.1 compression. Which is way to high for boost. So Iíd have to lower it to at least 9:0:1 or 8:5:1 preferably
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