Trying to understand filler work - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 07:33 PM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,463 Times in 1,115 Posts
Your problem could be as simple as the block your using.If its to small it'll follow the dent or to flexable it'lldo that too you need a hard block at least 8" for that.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 09:09 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,322
Thanked 6,881 Times in 4,383 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Your problem could be as simple as the block your using.If its to small it'll follow the dent or to flexable it'lldo that too you need a hard block at least 8" for that.
Very true, this is one reason to use NICE, NEW, SHARP, QUALITY paper so it CUTS and doesn't "polish" the filler.

Very good point Mike about the flex.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 09:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: tennessee
Posts: 311
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I've been using the 8" and the 16" dura block because it covers the whole dent.
image by -glhxturbo-

The 16" seems to flex a lot in the middle and dig into the dent sort of sticking up on the ends so I stopped using it.............but Im not sure. I was told to hold it in the middle and apply light pressure. I think I'll try to use the paper to create the contour for the flatter panel. It does have some contour to it.

I stopped using the flex block because it was too small and following the wave. That particular pattern has several different contours. The flex block has been good in some areas. Might have to get more creative

I'll put a skim coat on it and as soon as I see it break metal I'll stop there
Probably need to change the paper more often as well

I've also had problems with creasing the paper with the flexible blocks.

Last edited by glhx; 02-27-2014 at 09:59 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:58 PM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 3,124
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,164
Thanked 680 Times in 557 Posts
the problem is the metal work, body work, and inexperience. the blocks are fine as long as you are picking the right blocks for the right contour. I use a 3m 16" block that's a lot harder than those dura blocks but that's not the issue. Getting new blocks isn't gonna fix the issue. Getting straight body work is not easy and comes with experience. Just keep trying it and you'll get it. I hope I'm not discouraging you but to offer good advice means to NOT tell you to go spend more money but to just spend more time. My bodywork looked like that at one time so did everybody else's.

Go check out some of my videos. Lots of stuff on filler work. Go to youtube and type in "sanchtech". There's plenty of bondo tips in there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: tennessee
Posts: 311
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Will check it out
Thank you
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: tennessee
Posts: 311
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
The bondo spreader video isn't working. You clean them with cardboard.

I'm guessing you drag it on the edge of the cardboard
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:48 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,322
Thanked 6,881 Times in 4,383 Posts
Just click on this link and you should be able to see it. 100_6776.flv Video by BasicsofBasics | Photobucket

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:01 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,463 Times in 1,115 Posts
Now you know how we all felt when we started. its very frustrating indeed. wait till you get to the hood
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 06:49 AM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 3,124
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,164
Thanked 680 Times in 557 Posts
yep. you'll think you have taken a step forward when your body work gets good but then there's an entirely different animal and another step you have to take to get hoods consistently good. I remember my bodywork getting decent but not on hoods til I really focused on the details of EVERYTHING, even how it sits on a stand.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 07:09 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 654
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 77 Times in 67 Posts
Working body panels is an art, no doubt about it. The best advise I received came from the fellow who taught me to work with lead and Bondo in 1973 (H.S. auto shop). He said as soon as you find there is a need to add filler to a panel, you become a sculptor. Once you realize that, you will also need to realize that you are no longer shaping the panel, you are sculpting the fill.

In other words, once you spread fill, forget the panel until you are happy with the shape of the fill, or when you *JUST* see the panel again as it's high spots poke through. At that point you have a decision to make. Either stop or add fill to the low spots and sculpt some more.

Most of the trick to sculpting anything is knowing when to stop removing material.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Mitchman For This Useful Post:
charchri4 (04-07-2014)
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 08:50 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,322
Thanked 6,881 Times in 4,383 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchman View Post
Working body panels is an art, no doubt about it. The best advise I received came from the fellow who taught me to work with lead and Bondo in 1973 (H.S. auto shop). He said as soon as you find there is a need to add filler to a panel, you become a sculptor. Once you realize that, you will also need to realize that you are no longer shaping the panel, you are sculpting the fill.

In other words, once you spread fill, forget the panel until you are happy with the shape of the fill, or when you *JUST* see the panel again as it's high spots poke through. At that point you have a decision to make. Either stop or add fill to the low spots and sculpt some more.

Most of the trick to sculpting anything is knowing when to stop removing material.
Very true, that is NUMBER ONE the absolute NUMBER ONE mistake guys make, taking off too much. Newbes very seldom leave too much, they always take off too much. That edge of the filler should literally be transparent, it should transition from filler color getting thinner and thinner like a fading color to the surrounding metal. VERY seldom does it go from filler to metal with a definite line like in these photos and still be smooth. It does happen under certain conditions, but it is VERY seldom.

Henry (Tech69) has some great videos but I don't know where to find this particular lesson so I grabbed one off the net. This guy has some great explanation of the process. Click on the second video down on the page. I wanted to post a photo here showing the proper look that blocked filler should look. I googled images and found this image but it ended up being a video, which is cool, the video is very good. I don't like using the course paper as long has he does but other than that it is some great basic info. I also don't like how close the paint feather edge is to the work but there are lots of different ways to pull it off. You will notice he warns of hitting the filler when you feather edge the paint away after the repair, well if you feathered it further to begin with there wouldn't be a problem. But check it out, it's a darn good explanation of the process.

Body Filler - How To Block Sand Bondo On A Auto Repair

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 11:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: tennessee
Posts: 311
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I studied the pictures again and was going to ask the question of fading into the metal and becoming transparent. Brian already answered it in his last post and that tied things together

It should feather over the metal and there are a few small spots where this has been done it looks like. It's the solid line transitions that are problematic and need more filler.

I also see why the paint needs to be further back.....you can see the high spots and you know the inside of the circular pattern is low. You don't know if outside of the circle is low because the paint is covering it so you pull the paint back to see?

This is finally starting to make sense. I've only used 3/4 of a gallon of rage extreme on these spots and a few other small ones that were covered by the primer. Hopefully they won't shrink. They were more like dings.

Basically what I've taken out of this is that you finish the filler to almost perfection BEFORE high build. You last coat of filler should be like your first coat of high build.

I have 2 questions.......if the primer is going to shrink and sink down into body work filled by primer. How long will that take with the car sitting in the shop?

Mine has been sitting there in high build for 2 months on the first coat and 3 weeks on the second round of blocking with 180....I had to buy a new gun to spray the primer more evenly. The blocking is taking shape though.

Second question is......since the body work has been sprayed with high build.....then glazing putty put over the high build. What now.....if I want to put more filler in there should I take it out down past the high build and start over?
I was told glazing putty can be put over high build.....but regular filler should not be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 12:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: tennessee
Posts: 311
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I'm just going to take most of that back off until I get back to the base filler without the high build on it and more or less start over. .....and not run high build over it until it's done.

Then it won't shrink too bad....I won't have the deep scratches and there won't be any high build on there.

Last edited by glhx; 02-28-2014 at 12:37 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 12:46 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,322
Thanked 6,881 Times in 4,383 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glhx View Post
I studied the pictures again and was going to ask the question of fading into the metal and becoming transparent. Brian already answered it in his last post and that tied things together

It should feather over the metal and there are a few small spots where this has been done it looks like. It's the solid line transitions that are problematic and need more filler.

I also see why the paint needs to be further back.....you can see the high spots and you know the inside of the circular pattern is low. You don't know if outside of the circle is low because the paint is covering it so you pull the paint back to see?

This is finally starting to make sense. I've only used 3/4 of a gallon of rage extreme on these spots and a few other small ones that were covered by the primer. Hopefully they won't shrink. They were more like dings.

Basically what I've taken out of this is that you finish the filler to almost perfection BEFORE high build. You last coat of filler should be like your first coat of high build.

I have 2 questions.......if the primer is going to shrink and sink down into body work filled by primer. How long will that take with the car sitting in the shop?

Mine has been sitting there in high build for 2 months on the first coat and 3 weeks on the second round of blocking with 180....I had to buy a new gun to spray the primer more evenly. The blocking is taking shape though.

Second question is......since the body work has been sprayed with high build.....then glazing putty put over the high build. What now.....if I want to put more filler in there should I take it out down past the high build and start over?
I was told glazing putty can be put over high build.....but regular filler should not be.
"I have 2 questions.......if the primer is going to shrink and sink down into body work filled by primer. How long will that take with the car sitting in the shop?"

This is NOT the case at all, if applied properly it hardly shrinks at all. The biggest mistake with primer is asking it to do more than it is designed to do! Asking it to fill 80 grit scratches is MORE than it was designed to do. Asking it to fill low spots that weren't properly filled with your "last final skim coat" is asking it to do more than it was designed to do.

"Basically what I've taken out of this is that you finish the filler to almost perfection BEFORE high build. You last coat of filler should be like your first coat of high build."

You are getting this wrong. You use your high fill to fill the majority of the damage, the HUGE majority. You then use a skim coat of polyester putty as a "primer coat" to catch all the small, tiny imperfections like pin holes, small low spots, coarse sand paper scratches, that sort of thing. You don't have to use polyester putty for this last skim coat, but it spreads and sands SO much better than regular filler it isn't even a thought for me.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2014, 12:52 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,322
Thanked 6,881 Times in 4,383 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glhx View Post
I studied the pictures again and was going to ask the question of fading into the metal and becoming transparent. Brian already answered it in his last post and that tied things together

It should feather over the metal and there are a few small spots where this has been done it looks like. It's the solid line transitions that are problematic and need more filler.

I also see why the paint needs to be further back.....you can see the high spots and you know the inside of the circular pattern is low. You don't know if outside of the circle is low because the paint is covering it so you pull the paint back to see?

This is finally starting to make sense. I've only used 3/4 of a gallon of rage extreme on these spots and a few other small ones that were covered by the primer. Hopefully they won't shrink. They were more like dings.

Basically what I've taken out of this is that you finish the filler to almost perfection BEFORE high build. You last coat of filler should be like your first coat of high build.

I have 2 questions.......if the primer is going to shrink and sink down into body work filled by primer. How long will that take with the car sitting in the shop?

Mine has been sitting there in high build for 2 months on the first coat and 3 weeks on the second round of blocking with 180....I had to buy a new gun to spray the primer more evenly. The blocking is taking shape though.

Second question is......since the body work has been sprayed with high build.....then glazing putty put over the high build. What now.....if I want to put more filler in there should I take it out down past the high build and start over?
I was told glazing putty can be put over high build.....but regular filler should not be.
"Second question is......since the body work has been sprayed with high build.....then glazing putty put over the high build. What now.....if I want to put more filler in there should I take it out down past the high build and start over?
I was told glazing putty can be put over high build.....but regular filler should not be."


You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to get any imperfections taken care of in that "one last skim coat" of putty or filler. As far as I am concerned I have FAILED big time if I were to have to put putty over primer, FAILED!.

I know learning you may have to, but REALLY you want to eliminate that completely. This is the reason for the ONE LAST SKIM COAT in my "Basics". If you apply a thin coat over the top of a properly repaired area you are NOT going to have any need for anything more than a few coats of primer.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Body Filler work rudysboss Body - Exterior 1 12-31-2010 09:52 AM
help me understand sprayable body filler xpsyclonex2002 Body - Exterior 15 12-02-2009 08:31 PM
Spray after filler work? pavetim Body - Exterior 2 07-17-2009 08:39 AM
Progress on the block and filler work, but a question on getting fender lip line Ripped Body - Exterior 1 01-18-2007 11:03 PM
Fixing to do some filler work need some block sanders...... PairOf69's Body - Exterior 8 06-11-2006 03:39 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.