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-   -   Trying to understand filler work (https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/trying-understand-filler-work-277514.html)

glhx 03-16-2014 10:03 PM

It's a bit deeper than this further down.....
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3665/1...6844ae98_z.jpg-

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3803/1...c6e38d1a_z.jpg-

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/1...41ea6983_z.jpg-

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/1...77a2353b_z.jpg-

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3678/1...dd982d99_z.jpg-

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3737/1...04286a0c_z.jpg-

the body line is straight.
The metal is flexing while the filler was applied, I guess because there is no crown.

Do to inexperience and time constraints....not knowing how to get that panel back out and not being able to get it from the back due to 2 layers of structure .

I have that filler finished right now and it's basically perfect. It took me 10 hours. I kept sanding low and not adding enough filler back. Took a long time before I figured out how to do it. Practice and more practice...I had to go very light so the panel wouldn't flex. I went with what I did know a little about as opposed to what I knew nothing about.
The whole rest of the car is 180 blocked. Also....I figured that a huge hang up was doing this over epoxy. I'm not nearly skilled enough with filler to pull that off......and it showed in the multiple coats and re sands before it was right. There's no way I would have finished it. I need much more practice. I went direct to metal.....the filler won't come off and will be sealed well. It was prepped in 36 x pattern
I also realized the glaze is much thicker than I thought. I used that for some small low spots. After working 24 straight hours including driving time I shot epoxy over it and left. Slept 2 hours and was back at it for another 8.

I still want to know how to take that dent out.....I don't understand it and don't want a mess. I hit it with the suction cup.....it stuck to the panel very well but would not pull it out.


On the compound curve on the other panel. I shaped it by feel,,,,,placing my hand on a lint free cloth and going over the curves. It's perfect as well. Much better than before. Looking back at the filler I took out the first time. The majority of it was fine and the filler over the urethane probably would have been ok.....I don't know. The urethane was cured for a month. There was a time I way over filled this sail panel.....

demarques_191 03-16-2014 11:11 PM

Grind it all off and restraighten the metal

demarques_191 03-16-2014 11:15 PM

Tap all high spots down... if its low.. it can be filled... use plenty of guide coat..

When bodywork is finished' ... use metal glaze.. skim coat it... and sand with finer sandpaper.. 180

deadbodyman 03-17-2014 05:16 AM

Most of your problem is in the body line.. I'll try to explain...
anytime you pull a dent you have to start at the bodyline if its distorted or has a slight curve...you HAVE to start by getting that bodyline straight. the primary reason for bodylines is to stiffen the metal so its stronger so if the line has a curve it' makes the rest of the panel curve too. make sense so far??? The way to straighten the line is with a masons chisel a 4" wide chisel should work just fine.You get in the trunk set the chisel on the line and tap it with the hammer while sliding the chisel down the line. check your progress as you go. once the line is straight again THEN you work that dent you'll have a more harmonious outcome this way...

glhx 03-18-2014 11:29 AM

That makes sense.....but in blocking I'm not seeing any affect on the body line. It's like the damage goes right to it but stopped there at the line.... Do you see any imperfection in the line itself.

Let's say the line were in the middle if the dent. That's where what you are saying with the chisel would really shine? Straighten the line and work the dent?

Where are the high spots? It looks and feels like a smooth transition. I knocked down a lot of high spots that I found with the filler work.....and then tried to pull the dent with the suction cup. It pulled a little in the middle but not on the outsides where the tension is. It came out 1/16 and went back in....So maybe it's still high there. If I were to practice on this..I would knock down those highs more trying to pull the dent and make another dent on each side knocking them down.

De marquess_191
I've tried this on the dart roof in the background.....that's what happened and I made a mess of it. I need a practice panel first to learn how to do this. I've messed with this stuff enough to know it's not a simple process if you don't know what your doing. It takes practice or it takes knowing how to do it in the first place. It's tempting to remove the filler.

The pulling of the dent....It was half effort. Put the cup on.....pull on it and see what happens. Because I knocked those highs down already I figured it might come better than it did. If I saw hope I would have tried to work it...... Ok it's not working even a little and I'm not hammering on this epoxy and re spraying because I'll be set back two weeks. So I started filling. This is a skill building car. But it's my daily driver and I've been driving junk for a year learning this stuff.
I think my heat bill alone in the past 5 months is $600

I have the trashed fender for this car......I'm going to straighten it and beat it up some more to understand metal work. There's 50 hammers....15 Dolly's....spoons....shrinking discs, and many other items......I couldn't tell you why there are 50 hammers. I see them and have no idea why they are shaped the way they are. Why a shrinking hammer looks like a meat pounder etc. metal working is a whole new skill to get proficient at.

glhx 03-18-2014 01:03 PM

There is also trunk structure blocking that dent.....that's not as much a problem.

It's double lined metal. There is sheet metal in front of it. It seams like 1/8" distance

I have to push in that inside panel before it touches the dent. I've never seen anything like it before.

tech69 03-18-2014 01:37 PM

didn't realize the body line was down too. As DB said, it's pretty important to get that back up. It's like an octopus with its tentacles far reaching and will affect how the metal responds in surrounding areas. Pushing that back out will also tighten it up a bit, just like with the brows. Straight edges are perfect to gauging it.

glhx 03-18-2014 01:45 PM

The body line is good. It wasn't affected. The straight edge across the top and underside of the line show flush.....and the guide coat sanded evenly.

Directly under the body line however....is a shallow part of the dent. That might be the high spot I missed

But I also didn't knock down spot while pulling at the same time. How much does that matter?

deadbodyman 03-19-2014 05:45 AM

in your post#76,is that the body line or the wheel opening? the straight edge shows a gap...any place where theres a folded line in the metal needs to be straightened first ....wheel wells too...

The inner structure in the trunk my also be glued to the 1/4 with a foamlike material you'll need to slip a hack saw blade in there to separate to two pieces if that's the case. The inner structure will hold it all back and you wont be able to pull the 1/4 properly especially around a gas cap opening those always have some sort of glue sealing them up.
don't worry yourself about all the hammers the only two you are going to need are the pic and chisel head hammers and the shrinking hammer is useless whithout a shrinking dolly...we wont be getting into That right now ,it'll only confuse you more. if you need someone to call PM me. they're getting tired over at the suicide hotline and baldness center

glhx 03-19-2014 06:34 PM

In the first picture. The body line is above the ruler. The body line is perfect. I don't know how but it is. It seems as though whatever hit the car must not have hit very hard. But enough to either stretch the metal or mess with the body line on the fender flare.

It did mess up the fender flare slightly. It's not like a basketball was thrown at it. More like a baseball. It's hard to tell if the fender flare was damaged from something hitting it or the way it was prepared by the previous guy. Whoever did this car the way they did......it was a body shop.....but doing this stuff every day for a living, not taking out the back window and welding down the quarter panel, not letting the primer or paint flash, not scuffing the original part properly, and using this much filler......I don't get it. The only reason I filled it is lack of knowledge. A pro could have this worked in way less time than it took to fill and perfect it with that much bondo.

They broke the back seat and did not put back in any insulation. Then spray painted the door panel to match.

charchri4 04-04-2014 05:17 PM

Subscribed - excellent thread guys!!! I'm going out right now to try what I learned here.

glhx 04-06-2014 03:09 AM

Good.....maybe you will learn from the mistakes I made.....

And the mess I'm about to post that I've been fighting from doing something stupid.

See next post for said stupid mistake

glhx 04-06-2014 03:28 AM

I ended up filling that dent. It took me about.......don't laugh.....36 hours to get it right. I was block sanding with an 11" Block across the dent. It worked and it didn't.

I used glazing putty to finish it up. I've decided I like glazing putty a lot. It fills more than I thought and sands easy. It's like expensive evercoat rage.
What I learned about evercoat rage is that it has less pin holes than the evercoat gold......but the gold is thicker and fills better. So I'm sanding and sanding and applying and sanding over and over and over. Just couldn't get it right. I was messing around with a 4" rigid plastic block with some 180 on it. So I decided to slowly run it back and forth over the area. Usually I was going in an x pattern. Not this time. I noticed that if I paid close attention to the way the block felt as it ran over the high spots. I could feel the area become more perfect. I ran it back and forth......and I found I could sense more what was going on. Had i not stumbled on this. I would still be using the 11" durablock. Doing it like that worked. So that's fixed

charchri4 04-06-2014 05:24 AM

Dam 50 bucks in durablocks and the old walmart 1/4 sheet block I have used for years is the way to go after all... Not laughing at 36 hours but understand it well! Glad it worked out for you after all.

Lizer 04-06-2014 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhx (Post 2250330)
I ended up filling that dent. It took me about.......don't laugh.....36 hours to get it right. I was block sanding with an 11" Block across the dent. It worked and it didn't.

I used glazing putty to finish it up. I've decided I like glazing putty a lot. It fills more than I thought and sands easy. It's like expensive evercoat rage.
What I learned about evercoat rage is that it has less pin holes than the evercoat gold......but the gold is thicker and fills better. So I'm sanding and sanding and applying and sanding over and over and over. Just couldn't get it right. I was messing around with a 4" rigid plastic block with some 180 on it. So I decided to slowly run it back and forth over the area. Usually I was going in an x pattern. Not this time. I noticed that if I paid close attention to the way the block felt as it ran over the high spots. I could feel the area become more perfect. I ran it back and forth......and I found I could sense more what was going on. Had i not stumbled on this. I would still be using the 11" durablock. Doing it like that worked. So that's fixed

are you using guidecoat, and if not, why not? Takes a lot of the guesswork out.


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