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glhx 02-27-2014 01:09 PM

Trying to understand filler work
 
Having a hard time with this. There's about 4 layers in there
They get sanded down and every time it's too low or not the right shape. I rough it out with 36 then go to 80 and polish it up with 180
There's still a lot of 80 scratches in there. There are 2 spots.....one is on a curve and the other on a flat panel. I thought it was done so I put some high build on there, guide coated and found lots of low spots. I was told you can't put filler over high build so I took the high build back off. The next 3 times I just put some epoxy on there to find low spots. Epoxy doesn't build and takes a 24 hours recommended to dry.
.....so I can't run high build because I can't recoat and it's taking forever with the epoxy because of drying times......not to mention having to keep the epoxy at 75F for 12 hours at a time which is costing a fortune to heat the shop. I'm going through a vicious cycle. This picture is as close as I've come....I think high build will cover this.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2863/1...9ca138e6_b.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-

It still seems like its low in the top left corner.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/1...37de6f25_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-

Here it is sprayed with a thick coat of epoxy. There's no build on this so it's not saying much
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3686/1...b0665060_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-


The flat panel at an angle.*
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3822/1...45ed1f59_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-


Any thoughts on this.

glhx 02-27-2014 01:29 PM

They didn't want to take out the back window when they replaced the quarter panel.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/1...76966d56_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-

This was my first attempt......I wanted the filler on the epoxy. There are places now where it's sitting on the metal
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7390/1...4103e6df_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-

glhx 02-27-2014 01:36 PM

Is this the right color for glazing putty. I used hardener for rage evercoat filler on this putty.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/1...9babefb5_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-

MARTINSR 02-27-2014 02:06 PM

Ok, here is a "Basics of Basics" on filler work that others have found useful.

Bondo Basics - Autobodystore

Something not mentioned in the "Basics" I don't remember but I don't think so is how you need to remove the paint back aways from the filler work. And of course you don't know how far sometimes when you start but lets just say it's most always further than you think. You want the paint removed back away from your work so when you feel the filler you aren't having to figure out what is filler and what is paint. Because YES just the thickness of the paint can be felt and it can be confusing.

But print out that "Basics" and sit down on the couch and read it a few times. And clean up your spreader with a thinner soaked rag when you get done.

Brian

MARTINSR 02-27-2014 02:08 PM

And here's a tip of the day on fine tuning your spreader.

https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/tip-...ls-149590.html

Brian

glhx 02-27-2014 02:48 PM

That helps a lot. Makes a lot more sense than what I've been doing.

I also think part of my problem is speed. I'm trying to make it perfect the first time. So when I lay the filler I'm getting edge marks from the spreader. I'm always trying to take these out with the spreader instead of knocking them down with paper. This in turn has me caught off guard. When the filler cures it drags holes in pattern. The more holes I get the more I'm trying to fix.

I probably need to spread it and leave it alone. Then knock it down and then run that skim coat.

Will you look at the metal......the metal is in a circular pattern surrounding the filler. Are those the high spots I need to knock down. I will admit I am not proficient at pulling dents with a hammer dolly. It the pushing of the dolly from the back side. I'm knocking down highs but not pushing hard enough on the back side.....maybe I don't have to......I don't know

glhx 02-27-2014 03:45 PM

Another question maybe rudimentary In nature,
How do you correctly use a long board? Hold it from the middle and apply light pressure.

Hold it from the ends and apply medium pressure.

The reason I ask this is becUse it seems when I hold it in the middle.....the ends ride up and it doesn't stay straight..

When I switch to the circular long board it seems to stay more straight and hold its shape better.......I'm using dura block. Need to clear this up.

I could be using this wrong. For the flat panel I'm using the 16" block

For the curved panel I'm using the circular block.

I'm thinking of going to a thick dowel rod that stays straight

All that being said......the bondo basics talks of 8" panel.....what it fits larger?

MARTINSR 02-27-2014 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhx (Post 2155194)

I can tell by this photo you are low in the center, you need more filler there.

Brian

glhx 02-27-2014 04:21 PM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/1...37de6f25_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-

What can you tell me about this one.

The quoted picture was the first run. The one here follows somewhat of what of bondo basics....but I learned a lot from that link and may not have as many problems in the future. I still don't understand if this are high spots....and how I should hold the long block.

MARTINSR 02-27-2014 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhx (Post 2155554)
Another question maybe rudimentary In nature,
How do you correctly use a long board? Hold it from the middle and apply light pressure.

Hold it from the ends and apply medium pressure.

The reason I ask this is becUse it seems when I hold it in the middle.....the ends ride up and it doesn't stay straight..

When I switch to the circular long board it seems to stay more straight and hold its shape better.......I'm using dura block. Need to clear this up.

I could be using this wrong. For the flat panel I'm using the 16" block

For the curved panel I'm using the circular block.

I'm thinking of going to a thick dowel rod that stays straight

All that being said......the bondo basics talks of 8" panel.....what it fits larger?

I wrote that so long ago I had to go back and read it to see what you were talking about. I am referring to is if you are doing a small area that is as coarse a paper you need. On a larger area you could go to 40 or even 36. But I have actually gone to only using 40 or 36 on VERY large areas with a long board. On the areas you are working with you don't need anything coarser than 80. But using the 40 isn't a big deal, if it helps you CUT that filler flat go ahead and use it. You just have to be careful to blow all the dust out of the scratches and to use pressure when spreading out new filler or polyester putty to be sure you don't bridge over the scratch as it can shrink up later after you are done and ruin your nice work.

Remember, use ONLY 2K fillers, polyester putty and fillers that require a hardener. Don't ever use putty that doesn't use a hardener.

Brian

MARTINSR 02-27-2014 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhx (Post 2155618)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/1...37de6f25_z.jpgimage by -glhxturbo-

What can you tell me about this one.

The quoted picture was the first run. The one here follows somewhat of what of bondo basics....but I learned a lot from that link and may not have as many problems in the future. I still don't understand if this are high spots....and how I should hold the long block.

You haven't removed the paint out away enough. And the very sharp edges on the bare metal tell me that is high OR the filler is low, that edge of metal to the filler should be literally transparent. It should taper off getting thinner and thinner, THAT is when you know you are getting close to having it smooth. If it jumps from metal to filler like that with a sharp line you know it isn't right. I don't even have to feel it to tell you that isn't right.

Brian

glhx 02-27-2014 04:25 PM

Thank you sir.....


I only use the best materials.


Rage evercoat and the most expensive recommended sandpaper.

MARTINSR 02-27-2014 04:27 PM

And Evercoats "Metal Glaze" or "Glaze coat" polyester putty is a great product for that "Skim coat". Spread it on thin literally looking at is as a coat of primer, it works great.

Brian

glhx 02-27-2014 04:29 PM

I think your explanation at this point shows me the next step and explains a lot. Along with the article and the definition of the current state I know where I'm at and where I need to be from here. This to me .....now....is the first stage of filler......now I need the skim coat to cover everything. Then finish that.

This has been driving me nuts

mr4speed 02-27-2014 07:22 PM

Brian is correct on the fact of all the high spots on that bare metal is showing too much, as Brian states you should just barely start seeing the high spot and stop sanding. When you just look at it you can clearly see there is a considerable high spot causing you a hard time. On the A pillars I find that a large 3M sqeegee works great for blocking the filler and primer and follows those contours while staying flat. Using the round durablok (tube) on those areas is tough because there is not as much contact point while you sand, making it difficult to get rid of the high spots. I find those little sqeegees work the best on all those tough spots even for the tops of fenders right by the winshield area.


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